Thread: Troy Williamson drop...

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

A rookie receiver can only do as well as the team around him and how many opportunities they get.
It's not always because he is a first rounder.
It may be the situation.
Look at Moss.
He was the 21st (if I remember right) pick of the draft.
He did very well because he had a good team built around him and one of the best mentors in the league of Cris Carter.
It also helps when you have the talent he has and the talent around you too.

People that are trying to compare Calvin Johnson and that he didn't do "great" this year are wrong IMHO.
He did do well when you look at his opportunity.
He showed he can catch the ball, break tackles, have good YAC, and score TDs.
The difference is there's an experienced QB on the team that knows how to spread the ball around.
He was not the #1 WR so he did as well as could be expected when given the opportunity.

Longer story short to make my point I don't think taking a WR as the 17th pick in the 1st round is that bad of an idea so long as he is the best player available at that point.
This team has needs at DE and QB too.
It all depends on what they get in FA and what players are available at that time.
It doesn't mean he will be drafted to be the #1 WR right away.
But if it someone the FO thinks can help the team then go after him.

So who said he was not having a good season? All I said is that it took Detroit a couple times to find a good WR in the first round. Mike Williams and Charles Rodgers were suppose to be studs. We have a young WR. We don't need that. We need a proven guy to be our #1 and take pressure off the running game.

Not sure why you are personalizing what I said.
I wasn't referring to anything anyone said here.
When I referred to Calvin Johnson I was referring to posts people in general has made about him not doing well.
I never mentioned you in particular.

For the record, I agree with you that we need a proven WR to be a #1 on this team to not only be a go-to guy but to provide the leadership this teams needs at that position.

Calvin Johnson did OK!!!
he didn't do great even for the opportunities he had... he dropped quite a few balls over there in Detroit.. probably due to a lack of focus...

But your right in that he wasn't a main option.. it seemed Kitna was more comfortable with McDonald than anyone else.. But for the opportunities he did have.. he played just OK.. in my opinion.. He'll probably be a beast next year though...

"marstc09" wrote:

I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I understand why he dropped that pass, look at his body and then look at how his leg lands..that would have been a hard catch for anyone, except Randy

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

Alright, I've ignored this thread long enough, time for me to finally add my input...


I have very mixed feelings on TWill.
The drops are obviously extremely painful and frankly it appeared he had them under control until the Denver game.
Lets face it guys, EVERY receiver in the NFL drops passes.
That includes the TOs, the Harrisons and Waynes, the Chad Johnsons, and the Fitzs of the world.
The only exception this year was Moss who seemed to have velcro for hands this year.
The issue really was that TWill dropped 2 clutch passes in the last game of the season, one of which was an easy touchdown.
Had it been the first game of the year it'd have long been forgotten but it wasn't, this is our last memory of him this year.
Frankly, other then that game, I only remember 1 or 2 drops by him the rest of the year which is in line with the drops Wade, Fergie, and Rice all had trying to learn to catch TJack's rocket thrown slants early in the year.
I wonder how much of this is blown out of proportion just by bad timing.
Four dropped balls in a season is not a reason to dump a guy especially when compared against the improvement over previous years.

The real question for me is this, do the Vikings have any other receivers that can get open?
TWill was the ONLY receiver that could consistently get separation from his defender.
Think about the catches Fergie, Wade, and Rice all made... with a defender draped over their backs most of the time.
Part of that may be TJack not making throws on time, but I believe the bigger part is none of those receivers have break away speed that allows them to freely move through a soft zone coverage or break away from man to man coverage the way TWill can.
As has been said repeatedly, you can't teach speed and TWill has it.
He still has some issues with his routes (running too close the sideline and allowing the defender to knock him out of bounds) but I saw the same things from Fergie and Rice as well.
He still catches with his body too much but he has improved on his dropped balls and there is no reason to believe he won't continue to.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing TWill back but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised to see him dropped especially if the Vikes can make a play at a game breaker receiver.
He's not perfect but he did showed marked improvement from prior years.
I believe he is the only current receiver we have that can stretch a defense and beat man to man coverage and therefore keep a D honest as he and TJack continue to develop together.

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

I enjoy yours too.
Just stop smoking pot in your office
:P
Sorry about that statement.
That was uncalled for.
I did think it was funny at the time though.
Now looking back at it I was out of line.

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

I enjoy yours too.
Just stop smoking pot in your office
:P
Sorry about that statement.
That was uncalled for.
I did think it was funny at the time though.
Now looking back at it I was out of line.

It's ok. That is what I like about this site. We all have bad days and maybe take things too far. It takes a real man to realize it. That is why I respect so many people on this site. We are all here for one cause and that is too support our team and win a Super Bowl. Hopefully next year will be our time without Troy Williamson. Had to stay on topic with that one.

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

I enjoy yours too.
Just stop smoking pot in your office
:P
Sorry about that statement.
That was uncalled for.
I did think it was funny at the time though.
Now looking back at it I was out of line.

It's ok. That is what I like about this site. We all have bad days and maybe take things too far. It takes a real man to realize it. That is why I respect so many people on this site. We are all here for one cause and that is too support our team and win a Super Bowl. Hopefully next year will be our time without Troy Williamson. Had to stay on topic with that one.

I'm impressed you found a way to get Troy Williamson in there.
I guess now I did too.
So what WR do you think will take TWill's place?

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=41210.msg705628#msg705628 date=1200068097]
I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

I enjoy yours too.
Just stop smoking pot in your office
:P
Sorry about that statement.
That was uncalled for.
I did think it was funny at the time though.
Now looking back at it I was out of line.

It's ok. That is what I like about this site. We all have bad days and maybe take things too far. It takes a real man to realize it. That is why I respect so many people on this site. We are all here for one cause and that is too support our team and win a Super Bowl. Hopefully next year will be our time without Troy Williamson. Had to stay on topic with that one.

I'm impressed you found a way to get Troy Williamson in there.
I guess now I did too.
So what WR do you think will take TWill's place?
[/quote]

Dreamworld: Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Johnson

Reality: Donte Stallworth, Bernard Berrian, or Patrick Crayton

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

"ejmat" wrote:

"marstc09" wrote:

[quote author=ejmat link=topic=41210.msg705639#msg705639 date=1200069196]
[quote author=marstc09 link=topic=41210.msg705628#msg705628 date=1200068097]
I thought you meant me because I mentioned Detroit. Sorry. I thought Calvin Johnson did a good job but Roy Williams I think might be better. Again sorry but I thought you were referring to me.

Not at all Marstc.
I know we had our differences in the whole Darrion Scott thing but that's over as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not going to attack what you type and be personal about it.
Everyone is entitlled to their opinions and no one opinion is more correct than the other.


In this case there were other threads in where I saw people type that Johnson wasn't that good and he's not all he cracked up to be.
IMO he is pretty good and had a great year for a rookie receiver.
But I definately wasn't implying anything or responding to your post
;D

I totally forgot about the Scott thing. Now that you brought it up, I hate you!
I really enjoy your posts by the way.

I enjoy yours too.
Just stop smoking pot in your office
:P
Sorry about that statement.
That was uncalled for.
I did think it was funny at the time though.
Now looking back at it I was out of line.

It's ok. That is what I like about this site. We all have bad days and maybe take things too far. It takes a real man to realize it. That is why I respect so many people on this site. We are all here for one cause and that is too support our team and win a Super Bowl. Hopefully next year will be our time without Troy Williamson. Had to stay on topic with that one.

I'm impressed you found a way to get Troy Williamson in there.
I guess now I did too.
So what WR do you think will take TWill's place?
[/quote]

Dreamworld: Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald or Chad Johnson

Reality: Donte Stallworth, Bernard Berrian, or Patrick Crayton
[/quote]

I wouldn't be too depressed to see Hackett either.
Anyne of them wouldn't be a bad thing.