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  1. #111
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    slavinator wrote:
    Just to throw a little gasoline on this topic, Romo sat for 4 years before they put him in the mix........

    The fact is we haven't had a franchise QB since Dante, and before that I guess you would have to say 2 beer Tommy, or Fran Tarkenton. We need to address the position but as stated before; given current available need/value at the position and the level of competition on team as well as in the league they needed to wait and not make a knee jerk reaction and reach for a guy. That is what they have done so often in the past, and it has failed miserably.
    Please enlighten me, when was the last time we made a knee jerk reaction and reached for a guy prior to Tarvaris?

    I can count on one hand all the 1st, second and third round quarterbacks we've EVER drafted.

    WE may not have reached via the draft for a QB per se, but we have certainly reached in the Veteran FA department. (Moon,Fiedler,Brister, Holcomb, Bollinger, Frerrote, Brad Johnson x2)
    This regime whether any of us like or not has CHANGED the team, and how we approach our roster. While we did go out again and get an aging QB with some gas left in the tank, they are waiting for a guy (TJ or Otherwise) to give them a flash or a spark on the practice field or on film and then IMO we will get a new QB. Until then the plan will be: PLAY D, RUN the Ball, Keep Gpa Favre upright, and Dont F it up in Special teams area.
    Odd, our gameplan last season was run, pass, pass more, play tolerable D at times, until it really matters, then pass some more.
    But our offense was significantly better because of the QB we have. Without that we go back to the hand it off 2x, then do a TJ roll out pass with a one receiver route. Not exactly the same as having the diverse attack we have with Favre.

    My sole point is that Favre has made a huge difference in this offense. We need to find a guy who fits the WCO like Favre, McNabb etc or a college kid who plays in a similar system in order to be successful. Until then we will have the QB by platoon as a long term plan.

    All I am saying is we need to find the 'right' guy.

  2. #112
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    slavinator wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    slavinator wrote:
    Just to throw a little gasoline on this topic, Romo sat for 4 years before they put him in the mix........

    The fact is we haven't had a franchise QB since Dante, and before that I guess you would have to say 2 beer Tommy, or Fran Tarkenton. We need to address the position but as stated before; given current available need/value at the position and the level of competition on team as well as in the league they needed to wait and not make a knee jerk reaction and reach for a guy. That is what they have done so often in the past, and it has failed miserably.
    Please enlighten me, when was the last time we made a knee jerk reaction and reached for a guy prior to Tarvaris?

    I can count on one hand all the 1st, second and third round quarterbacks we've EVER drafted.

    WE may not have reached via the draft for a QB per se, but we have certainly reached in the Veteran FA department. (Moon,Fiedler,Brister, Holcomb, Bollinger, Frerrote, Brad Johnson x2)
    This regime whether any of us like or not has CHANGED the team, and how we approach our roster. While we did go out again and get an aging QB with some gas left in the tank, they are waiting for a guy (TJ or Otherwise) to give them a flash or a spark on the practice field or on film and then IMO we will get a new QB. Until then the plan will be: PLAY D, RUN the Ball, Keep Gpa Favre upright, and Dont F it up in Special teams area.
    Odd, our gameplan last season was run, pass, pass more, play tolerable D at times, until it really matters, then pass some more.
    But our offense was significantly better because of the QB we have. Without that we go back to the hand it off 2x, then do a TJ roll out pass with a one receiver route. Not exactly the same as having the diverse attack we have with Favre.

    My sole point is that Favre has made a huge difference in this offense. We need to find a guy who fits the WCO like Favre, McNabb etc or a college kid who plays in a similar system in order to be successful. Until then we will have the QB by platoon as a long term plan.

    All I am saying is we need to find the 'right' guy.
    PS I apologize for the Bold type

  3. #113
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    C Mac D wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    At that time, of course, the litany of excuses flow from the handful of "believers" in a never ending torrent of moronic blather that seeks to obfuscate the relevant facts of the issue at hand, and repace them with subjective "truisms" that can neither be proven nor unproven...
    lol... sentence of the hour right there
    Even funnier that he says it takes 2-3 years to develop a NFL QB, yet tears Jackson apart for his play his second and third year? Despite playing better than any other QB drafted in his class? Despite finishing 2008 with a 95+ QB rating? Despite helping us get to the playoffs?

    I see promise in Jackson, Caine doesn't. His hatred for Jackson flows beyond football though, I'm sure of it.

    Not really concerned if Caine sees the idiocy in that or not... I assume most rational people do though.
    I don't know why you insist on attributing feelings or statements to me that I don't have or haven't made...I suppose it's all a part of your "Grand Illusion" that you require to maintain the notion that you have ever had anything credible to add to any conversation anywhere...

    1: I don't hate Jackson - never have. I simply have not seen sufficient IMPROVEMENT (there's that critical term you keep ignoring) to warrant a continuation of the notion taht he is starter-ready. That is no more hatred than someone claiming that Fred Smoot was not an effective cornerback here...it's an observation.

    2: The idiocy lies in the fact that you continually and consistantly ignore every fact or point that doesn't fall in line with your own hyperinflated opinion. You don't refute them, or debate them...you simply ignore them, then you claim victory based on the notion that no one has a keener grasp on the situation than you.

    3: If it takes 2-3 years - a subjective notion at best (Another point you've ignored) - then the player is judged on a continuous basis during the entire process. Something else you've ignored. He doesn't emerge after 2-3 years and THEN the judging begins...that would be moronic in the extreme...much like most of your opinions.

    Caine

  4. #114
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    C Mac D wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    At that time, of course, the litany of excuses flow from the handful of "believers" in a never ending torrent of moronic blather that seeks to obfuscate the relevant facts of the issue at hand, and repace them with subjective "truisms" that can neither be proven nor unproven...
    lol... sentence of the hour right there
    Even funnier that he says it takes 2-3 years to develop a NFL QB, yet tears Jackson apart for his play his second and third year? Despite playing better than any other QB drafted in his class? Despite finishing 2008 with a 95+ QB rating? Despite helping us get to the playoffs?

    I see promise in Jackson, Caine doesn't. His hatred for Jackson flows beyond football though, I'm sure of it.

    Not really concerned if Caine sees the idiocy in that or not... I assume most rational people do though.
    Don't ya just get mad at guys who seem to single out one player or two and just hack on him for no obvious reason? :blink:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #115
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    I know how we can finance the stadium.......Get rid of the defense and all the other players. We just need a QB. :lol:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #116
    tarkenton10's Avatar
    tarkenton10 is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    The trouble is we don't have a Brady if Favre retires. You have to use your talent to the best of THEIR ability. Our best players led us to a running game. Now we have drafted Rice, Harvin and traded for Shank but we still do not have a Fanchise QB without Favre. That's like having a ferrarri in your driveway but no keys. Franchise QBs are not easy to find; there are only a few in the league. If we lose Favre we will again be run heavy when gameplanning mark my words my friend (Marrdrroeze)

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  7. #117
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    tarkenton10 wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    The trouble is we don't have a Brady if Favre retires. You have to use your talent to the best of THEIR ability. Our best players led us to a running game. Now we have drafted Rice, Harvin and traded for Shank but we still do not have a Fanchise QB without Favre. That's like having a ferrarri in your driveway but no keys. Franchise QBs are not easy to find; there are only a few in the league. If we lose Favre we will again be run heavy when gameplanning mark my words my friend (Marrdrroeze)
    Good stuff my friend (tarkenton10eze), just one comment/discussion point.

    As you said, we should use our talent to the best of THIER ability. Isn't most of our talent on this team geared to support the running game?

    Even our WR's are lauded as the top of the class when it comes to downfield blocking. Our best TE is a true "Inline" TE who can run block just as well as he can catch passes. Our OL is taught the ZBing scheme which is geared to exploit the run game. We just drafted arguably the biggest, baddest RB in this year draft class. We are gonna convert a BIG QB into a BIG WR. Our T's are behemouths. Heck, we don't even use our FB as a offensive weapon, just as a lead blocker.......Etc etc etc.

    Was it fun to watch the Noodle slinging it all over the field? Sure, but it is also just as fun watching AD shove it down peoples throat Sunday after Sunday.

    When TJ (or any other QB) takes over this team, it will revert back to a run on first down, run on second down, dink dunk on 3rd if you don't think you can get the first by running.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #118
    tarkenton10's Avatar
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    Marrdro wrote:
    tarkenton10 wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    The trouble is we don't have a Brady if Favre retires. You have to use your talent to the best of THEIR ability. Our best players led us to a running game. Now we have drafted Rice, Harvin and traded for Shank but we still do not have a Fanchise QB without Favre. That's like having a ferrarri in your driveway but no keys. Franchise QBs are not easy to find; there are only a few in the league. If we lose Favre we will again be run heavy when gameplanning mark my words my friend (Marrdrroeze)
    Good stuff my friend (tarkenton10eze), just one comment/discussion point.

    As you said, we should use our talent to the best of THIER ability. Isn't most of our talent on this team geared to support the running game?

    Even our WR's are lauded as the top of the class when it comes to downfield blocking. Our best TE is a true "Inline" TE who can run block just as well as he can catch passes. Our OL is taught the ZBing scheme which is geared to exploit the run game. We just drafted arguably the biggest, baddest RB in this year draft class. We are gonna convert a BIG QB into a BIG WR. Our T's are behemouths. Heck, we don't even use our FB as a offensive weapon, just as a lead blocker.......Etc etc etc.

    Was it fun to watch the Noodle slinging it all over the field? Sure, but it is also just as fun watching AD shove it down peoples throat Sunday after Sunday.

    When TJ (or any other QB) takes over this team, it will revert back to a run on first down, run on second down, dink dunk on 3rd if you don't think you can get the first by running.
    I agree we are built for the run but have gotten significantly better weapons for the passing game and with the right QB could be a very balanced and scary team.

    Good post my friend!

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  9. #119
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    tarkenton10 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tarkenton10 wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    The trouble is we don't have a Brady if Favre retires. You have to use your talent to the best of THEIR ability. Our best players led us to a running game. Now we have drafted Rice, Harvin and traded for Shank but we still do not have a Fanchise QB without Favre. That's like having a ferrarri in your driveway but no keys. Franchise QBs are not easy to find; there are only a few in the league. If we lose Favre we will again be run heavy when gameplanning mark my words my friend (Marrdrroeze)
    Good stuff my friend (tarkenton10eze), just one comment/discussion point.

    As you said, we should use our talent to the best of THIER ability. Isn't most of our talent on this team geared to support the running game?

    Even our WR's are lauded as the top of the class when it comes to downfield blocking. Our best TE is a true "Inline" TE who can run block just as well as he can catch passes. Our OL is taught the ZBing scheme which is geared to exploit the run game. We just drafted arguably the biggest, baddest RB in this year draft class. We are gonna convert a BIG QB into a BIG WR. Our T's are behemouths. Heck, we don't even use our FB as a offensive weapon, just as a lead blocker.......Etc etc etc.

    Was it fun to watch the Noodle slinging it all over the field? Sure, but it is also just as fun watching AD shove it down peoples throat Sunday after Sunday.

    When TJ (or any other QB) takes over this team, it will revert back to a run on first down, run on second down, dink dunk on 3rd if you don't think you can get the first by running.
    I agree we are built for the run but have gotten significantly better weapons for the passing game and with the right QB could be a very balanced and scary team.

    Good post my friend!
    Thanks. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn he he looks long enough.

    I know he isn't real popular, but just for one second, put TJ in that offense, especially on a rollout.

    Is he gonna run, is he gonna pass, who shadows him etc etc etc.

    If, and I know its a big if, we are right and he has matured enough to make the correct decision, this can be a damn scary defense and I'm not talking about long deep passes either. I'm talking about a offense that will dictate to a defense whether that be via the pass or via the run.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #120
    tarkenton10's Avatar
    tarkenton10 is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    Marrdro wrote:
    tarkenton10 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    tarkenton10 wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.
    The trouble is we don't have a Brady if Favre retires. You have to use your talent to the best of THEIR ability. Our best players led us to a running game. Now we have drafted Rice, Harvin and traded for Shank but we still do not have a Fanchise QB without Favre. That's like having a ferrarri in your driveway but no keys. Franchise QBs are not easy to find; there are only a few in the league. If we lose Favre we will again be run heavy when gameplanning mark my words my friend (Marrdrroeze)
    Good stuff my friend (tarkenton10eze), just one comment/discussion point.

    As you said, we should use our talent to the best of THIER ability. Isn't most of our talent on this team geared to support the running game?

    Even our WR's are lauded as the top of the class when it comes to downfield blocking. Our best TE is a true "Inline" TE who can run block just as well as he can catch passes. Our OL is taught the ZBing scheme which is geared to exploit the run game. We just drafted arguably the biggest, baddest RB in this year draft class. We are gonna convert a BIG QB into a BIG WR. Our T's are behemouths. Heck, we don't even use our FB as a offensive weapon, just as a lead blocker.......Etc etc etc.

    Was it fun to watch the Noodle slinging it all over the field? Sure, but it is also just as fun watching AD shove it down peoples throat Sunday after Sunday.

    When TJ (or any other QB) takes over this team, it will revert back to a run on first down, run on second down, dink dunk on 3rd if you don't think you can get the first by running.
    I agree we are built for the run but have gotten significantly better weapons for the passing game and with the right QB could be a very balanced and scary team.

    Good post my friend!
    Thanks. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn he he looks long enough.

    I know he isn't real popular, but just for one second, put TJ in that offense, especially on a rollout.

    Is he gonna run, is he gonna pass, who shadows him etc etc etc.

    If, and I know its a big if, we are right and he has matured enough to make the correct decision, this can be a damn scary defense and I'm not talking about long deep passes either. I'm talking about a offense that will dictate to a defense whether that be via the pass or via the run.
    I have said before and will say again if Favre retires I hope TJ starts. I want this over I am so tired of he has matured or he is not starter material I really just want it over one way or the other. My feelings are he will never be a starter but I would like to see him get another chance. But if he plays well the TJ sniffers will be "I told you so" If he fails it will be someone elses fault. I just want it over.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

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