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  1. #101
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    C Mac D wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:

    Prideful: Absolutely. It's because I'm smart, intelligent, handsome, talented and awesome.
    You forgot humble.
    Oh, and endowed.
    poorly endowed?

  2. #102
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:

    Prideful: Absolutely. It's because I'm smart, intelligent, handsome, talented and awesome.
    You forgot humble.
    Oh, and endowed.
    poorly endowed?
    Depends on the grading scale.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #103
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    C Mac D wrote:
    tarkenton10 wrote:
    C Mac D wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Boy, you really don't read entire posts, do you?

    I've already stated above, there is no magic number. That would be the "answer" to your unanswerable question. Some QB's are instantly ready, some not. A 2-3 year window is typical, and if consistant elevated performance is not manifested, teams start looking. Jackson had that...and his performace was neither consistant nor elevated.

    Caine
    So... what your saying is that you are using stats from his developmental period (2-3 years... you're words) to argue against him? lol...

    Seems sort of close-minded and myopic... oh right, forgot who I was talking to.

    And yes... it was elevated. I have a graph to prove it.
    This post is where you lose people. You give your side and now someone who does not agree with you is now CLOSEMINDED & MYOPIC. No need for that when discussing this already worn out record. Many people could say some adjectives to describe you, maybe sutbborn, shortsighted, prideful, etc. Those all could be said of someone who is constantly trying to say TJ is the best QB we have when many have seen him play and have a different opinion. So I suggest you stay to the facts and try not to inject your opinion of someone. Remember when you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at you!!
    lol... so you think it's perfectly logical to say it takes 2-3 years to develop an NFL ready QB... but then point to his first 2.5 years of playing time to criticize? And I'm in the wrong?

    Anyone with common sense can see how myopic that is.

    Oh, and I'm not sure you understand what those adjectives you listed even mean.

    Short-sighted: Yet I choose to give Jackson another chance because I've seen his progress during his time with the Vikings? lol, Interesting.

    Stubborn: Probably. But it's tough being a intelligent individual on an internet football forum.

    Prideful: Absolutely. It's because I'm smart, intelligent, handsome, talented and awesome.
    And what, exactly, is the purpose of the 2-3 year guideline? Are you under the mistaken impression that nothing counts UNTIL that point in time? How pleasant that would be for your point of view...but how woefully inaccurate for the real world.

    The 2-3 year window is an arbitrary number - as stated repeatedly before, and repeatedly ignored by you. During that developmental period of time, the player is CONSTANTLY being evaluated and critiqued. And, if sufficient progress is not evidenced, the player is replaced.

    Except, of course, in the Cranial-rectally intrusive world of C Mac D. In THIS world it seems, the player is wrapped in a protective cocoon of "development" or "project", and is only released for scrutiny after the magic window has elapsed.

    At that time, of course, the litany of excuses flow from the handful of "believers" in a never ending torrent of moronic blather that seeks to obfuscate the relevant facts of the issue at hand, and repace them with subjective "truisms" that can neither be proven nor unproven...all in an effort to discredit anyone who might actually have a factual basis for thier opinions, and instead promote an envoroment where it is acceptable to push opinion as fact...so long as it's C Mac's opinion.

    Sadly, whenever you post, I hear the sound of the small dag barking wildly from behind the safety of a screen door. All noise, and no substance.

    Caine

  4. #104
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    At that time, of course, the litany of excuses flow from the handful of "believers" in a never ending torrent of moronic blather that seeks to obfuscate the relevant facts of the issue at hand, and repace them with subjective "truisms" that can neither be proven nor unproven...
    lol... sentence of the hour right there

  5. #105
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    Caine wrote:
    Except, of course, in the Cranial-rectally intrusive world of C Mac D. In THIS world it seems, the player is wrapped in a protective cocoon of "development" or "project", and is only released for scrutiny after the magic window has elapsed.

    lol... Caine, buddy. He was drafted as a project.

    Honestly, sometimes I wonder why I take the time to try to explain the logic behind grooming a QB... it's lost on the fickle and uneducated though.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  6. #106
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    At that time, of course, the litany of excuses flow from the handful of "believers" in a never ending torrent of moronic blather that seeks to obfuscate the relevant facts of the issue at hand, and repace them with subjective "truisms" that can neither be proven nor unproven...
    lol... sentence of the hour right there
    Even funnier that he says it takes 2-3 years to develop a NFL QB, yet tears Jackson apart for his play his second and third year? Despite playing better than any other QB drafted in his class? Despite finishing 2008 with a 95+ QB rating? Despite helping us get to the playoffs?

    I see promise in Jackson, Caine doesn't. His hatred for Jackson flows beyond football though, I'm sure of it.

    Not really concerned if Caine sees the idiocy in that or not... I assume most rational people do though.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  7. #107
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    Just to throw a little gasoline on this topic, Romo sat for 4 years before they put him in the mix........

    The fact is we haven't had a franchise QB since Dante, and before that I guess you would have to say 2 beer Tommy, or Fran Tarkenton. We need to address the position but as stated before; given current available need/value at the position and the level of competition on team as well as in the league they needed to wait and not make a knee jerk reaction and reach for a guy. That is what they have done so often in the past, and it has failed miserably.

    This regime whether any of us like or not has CHANGED the team, and how we approach our roster. While we did go out again and get an aging QB with some gas left in the tank, they are waiting for a guy (TJ or Otherwise) to give them a flash or a spark on the practice field or on film and then IMO we will get a new QB. Until then the plan will be: PLAY D, RUN the Ball, Keep Gpa Favre upright, and Dont F it up in Special teams area.

    Again I do NOT believe TJ is the answer as the starter moving forward but I could be wrong.

    What matters to me is that the Vikings are finally running a real top notch organization, not just trying to 'get by' as we did in the McCombs days.

  8. #108
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    slavinator wrote:
    Just to throw a little gasoline on this topic, Romo sat for 4 years before they put him in the mix........

    The fact is we haven't had a franchise QB since Dante, and before that I guess you would have to say 2 beer Tommy, or Fran Tarkenton. We need to address the position but as stated before; given current available need/value at the position and the level of competition on team as well as in the league they needed to wait and not make a knee jerk reaction and reach for a guy. That is what they have done so often in the past, and it has failed miserably.
    Please enlighten me, when was the last time we made a knee jerk reaction and reached for a guy prior to Tarvaris?

    I can count on one hand all the 1st, second and third round quarterbacks we've EVER drafted.

    This regime whether any of us like or not has CHANGED the team, and how we approach our roster. While we did go out again and get an aging QB with some gas left in the tank, they are waiting for a guy (TJ or Otherwise) to give them a flash or a spark on the practice field or on film and then IMO we will get a new QB. Until then the plan will be: PLAY D, RUN the Ball, Keep Gpa Favre upright, and Dont F it up in Special teams area.
    Odd, our gameplan last season was run, pass, pass more, play tolerable D at times, until it really matters, then pass some more.

  9. #109
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    I heard a very interesting quote from Bill Walsh, went something like this:

    'When we were leading the league in passing, we were often also leading the league in scoring. When we led the league in rushing, we were 12th in scoring'

    What does that tell you? That was back in the 90's as well, the game has evolved since then even to be even more passing oriented.

    Chilly's initial philosophy, Run the ball and stop the run doesn't really work in todays day and age.

    Looking over the past bunch of Superbowl winners since 2000

    Ravens*, Patriots, Bucs, Patriots, Patriots, Steelers*, Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints

    only two of those teams were 'run and stop the run' philosophies. The rest of them won with balanced or heavy passing offenses.

    The top three quarterbacks in the league have combined for five superbowls already.

    another popular cliche is 'defense wins championships', which is true, but more importantly quarterbacks win championships.

    sometimes if your D is truly good enough, and I mean some of the best ever, or at least best in the league (Bears, Steelers, Patriots), you can carry a young or mediocre QB. HOwever, Once Brady matured more, he was leading that team, and their steller defense just sealed the deal. Manning manges to win without a Defense, Brad johnson was still pretty decent in Tampa, and Eli & the Giants O had their way with the Pats.

  10. #110
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    Re:Tom Powers:Do the Vikings have long-term QB pla

    C Mac D wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Boy, you really don't read entire posts, do you?

    I've already stated above, there is no magic number. That would be the "answer" to your unanswerable question. Some QB's are instantly ready, some not. A 2-3 year window is typical, and if consistant elevated performance is not manifested, teams start looking. Jackson had that...and his performace was neither consistant nor elevated.

    Caine
    So... what your saying is that you are using stats from his developmental period (2-3 years... you're words) to argue against him? lol...

    Seems sort of close-minded and myopic... oh right, forgot who I was talking to.

    And yes... it was elevated. I have a graph to prove it.
    NOOOOO! PLEASE! Not the graphs! For the love of all that is holy please don't post the graphs again.

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