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  1. #91
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    Not only does Childress not teach Turnovers its probably the one big aspect of the game that he repeatedly talks about. Taking care of the football is a number one priority. I've heard him say it a hundred times.
    Exactly but you see the haters want to think that it's the coaches fault because they don't like the guy and they love AP.
    I love AP as much as the next guy but I am not blinded by his faults.
    It's funny when the team wins everyone gives credit to Peterson but if they lose it's always Childress.
    Even if it is because of INTs they still blame Childress because he "should" have addressed the QB situation even with the limited choices he had since his arrival.
    You guys know my stance on this.....

    Its the players job to execute, however, its also the coaches job to get him ready to execute.

    Fumbles, INT's etc fall on both sides of the blame fence.

    INT's.
    Coaches, using game tape/film sessions and follow-up drills/walk throughs can show the tendencies of what teams will be doing based on looks.
    Off of those tendencies our players must execute what the coaches say will work.

    Even if they both get it right, by the by, the other team might just not do what they tend to do and mess up the whole plan resulting in a gol 'darnit nice play.

    ;D
    Sorry Marr but I don't by it.
    Coaches do not teach QBs to throw INTs or RBs to fumble the ball.
    The coaches and players watch game film all week which the coaches show them.
    It is up to the players and the coaches to discuss what teams do with what sets they use.
    Some will be disguised.
    So it is up to the player to adapt during the play and up to the coaches to make adjustments during the breaks and half time.
    If you are trying to convince me the coaches don't do that it will be extremely difficult to do.
    The fact that neither you or I don't know for sure since we are not in the locker room or on the field during the game leads me to believe adjustments are being done since they do on every football team.
    If they don't then they wouldn't have made it this far and should without doubt be fired.
    Lets try another tact.......

    Does everyone learn the same? Nope, infact not only do they not learn the same, they don't retain a high portion of what is being taught which leads to repeatitive lessons.

    The coaches, if they are good, will recognize those that learn differently and will coach it to them in a different manner.

    Again, the players have a responsibility to learn and execute what they learn, but the coaches must "learn them" the right way to ensure they are ready to execute.

    Both are responsible.
    Sorry Marr - Still not bying it.
    Both AP and TJ has publically stated they know what they have to do.
    That would tell me it is the player's fault.
    Fumbling cannot be controlled by coaching.
    You teach them how to hold the ball and quite frankly if an NFL player doesn't know by now that is their fault.
    They learned this at a very early age.

  2. #92
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    "ejmat" wrote:
    Sorry Marr - Still not bying it.
    Both AP and TJ has publically stated they know what they have to do.
    That would tell me it is the player's fault.
    Fumbling cannot be controlled by coaching.
    You teach them how to hold the ball and quite frankly if an NFL player doesn't know by now that is their fault.
    They learned this at a very early age.
    No doubt, and even though they are pro's I know this staff is persistent with the basics of technique.

  3. #93
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    "ejmat" wrote:
    Sorry Marr - Still not bying it.
    Both AP and TJ has publically stated they know what they have to do.
    That would tell me it is the player's fault.
    Fumbling cannot be controlled by coaching.
    You teach them how to hold the ball and quite frankly if an NFL player doesn't know by now that is their fault.
    They learned this at a very early age.
    Show me were I said anything about them controlling anything....

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.......... ;D
    ;D
    ;D

    INT's.
    The onus is on the coaches to make sure the kid can read the defense.
    The onus is on the kid to read it correctly based on what the coaches showed him in film study as well as to throw the ball accurately, if the OL blocks and the WR's gets open.

    Both share/are responsible. (nothing about control there)

    Fumbles.
    The onus is on the coach to keep drilling in that which he has already learned.
    The onus is on the player to execute that which he has learned...

    On a Side note:
    Are you trying to tell me that what they learned translates to the next level, thereby alleviating any need for position coaches?

    Not buying it......
    Anyone who follows the game knows that as the players go to the next level, the players they face are better, faster, bigger etc resulting in the need to re-hone thier skills.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #94
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    Sorry Marr - Still not bying it.
    Both AP and TJ has publically stated they know what they have to do.
    That would tell me it is the player's fault.
    Fumbling cannot be controlled by coaching.
    You teach them how to hold the ball and quite frankly if an NFL player doesn't know by now that is their fault.
    They learned this at a very early age.
    No doubt, and even though they are pro's I know this staff is persistent with the basics of technique.
    I agree with Marr on this one. But I feel it is primarily the players responsibility.

    Just to site an example that is similar, but points out the shared responsibility better.

    Bears defensive players seem to frequently be trying to rip the ball out of the ball carriers hands.
    I see that happen only occasionally with the Vikings defensive players.
    I think the difference is coaching emphasis.

    Players need to execute so it is primarily their responsibility. But coaching can help make by what is worked on in study and practice, as well as what plays and techniques are used on game day.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  5. #95
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    Sorry Marr - Still not bying it.
    Both AP and TJ has publically stated they know what they have to do.
    That would tell me it is the player's fault.
    Fumbling cannot be controlled by coaching.
    You teach them how to hold the ball and quite frankly if an NFL player doesn't know by now that is their fault.
    They learned this at a very early age.
    Show me were I said anything about them controlling anything....

    Again, one more time for possible penetration.......... ;D
    ;D
    ;D

    INT's.
    The onus is on the coaches to make sure the kid can read the defense.
    The onus is on the kid to read it correctly based on what the coaches showed him in film study as well as to throw the ball accurately, if the OL blocks and the WR's gets open.

    Both share/are responsible. (nothing about control there)

    Fumbles.
    The onus is on the coach to keep drilling in that which he has already learned.
    The onus is on the player to execute that which he has learned...

    On a Side note:
    Are you trying to tell me that what they learned translates to the next level, thereby alleviating any need for position coaches?

    Not buying it......
    Anyone who follows the game knows that as the players go to the next level, the players they face are better, faster, bigger etc resulting in the need to re-hone thier skills.
    Not trying to say position coaches are not needed.
    The players at this level are always far better than at any other level but it doesn't take away the fact players (especially running backs) are taught how to hold the football at a young age.
    If you are trying to say the coaches aren't doing that I will disagree since AP himself said so.

    As far as INTs, it is the coaches responsibility to work with the players and learn different defensive schemes.
    However we seem to be talking more about Gus here than TJ since TJ hasn't had a bunch of INTs this year.
    Gus is a ball slinger and that's how he has been his whole life.
    If he changed that he would be totally ineffective.
    He knows how to read a defense but he has trouble making good decisions while out on the field.
    Are they all his fault?
    No. But for the most part they are.
    TJ on the other hand has improved immensely since last year judging by his TD - INT ratio.
    So your theory (which is correct) would tell me the coaches have done a great job working with TJ in that aspect.
    TJ is still in the learning mode whereas Gus should be in the playing at his style mode at this point in his career.

  6. #96
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    Re: Today, I am ashamed.....

    Arguably of course, no BIGGER fan than I am!!!
    40 plus years and counting and I believe wholeheartedly our boys will come out like barnstormers and drub the Iggles!
    At least I hope SKOL VIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "It's all in God's hands" R E Lee 7/3/1863

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