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  1. #21
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Mr" wrote:
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.
    Another reason for this is the fact that once the ball in thrown, the longer the pass the more time the safety has to react to it, effectively giving them the ability to cover more ground in the deeper part of the field.

    This is a good diagram, although I don;t think that using all rectangles for coverage zones is really accurate.
    For instance, assuming that there is no blitzing, the MLB's coverage sone would be more of an upside down triangle..
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #22
    A2-D8's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
    I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
    It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.
    "I don't believe it."

    "That is why you fail."

  3. #23
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    [size=15pt]I am 100% sure the vikings will run this formation![/size]





    Williams








    Sharper








    Johnson

















    EJ






    Greenway
    Griffin







    Allen

    K.Williams

    Allen




    McCauley




    Winfield


    [size=4pt]In madden.[/size]

  4. #24
    jessejames09's Avatar
    jessejames09 is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "A2-D8" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
    I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
    It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.
    Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.








    Williams












    Johnson













    Sharper

























    EJ









    Chad

    Griffin















    Allen

    Williams

    DT

    Edwards











    Winfield

    When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
    I'd much rather have:












    Madieu












    Sharper








    McCauley














    EJ











    Chad

    Griffin








    Robison


    KWill


    Allen


    Edwards








    Winfield
    McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


    With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

    And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

    And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.


























    What he said.
    ;D

    JK, I wasn't advocating putting Griffin anyplace.
    I was however saying that our CB's are as big as S, are probably better athletes and would be a better cover for a TE than a S.

    Why put Griffin in the slot he's fine occupying the outside. McCauley is most likely going to be our NB, but Antoine will move to the slot when he comes in as usual. This 'Big Nickel' will be used a few times throughout the season, I'm sure as we want to get Johnson as many touches as we can this season, without starting him. I remember seeing Tank come in on nickel last year, on occasion.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    Your on a roll tonight my friend.
    Top shelf.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "A2-D8" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
    I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
    It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.
    Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.
    LOL, your cracking me up.
    ;D

    Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

    I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    [size=15pt]I am 100% sure the vikings will run this formation![/size]





    Williams








    Sharper








    Johnson

















    EJ






    Greenway
    Griffin







    Allen

    K.Williams

    Allen




    McCauley




    Winfield


    [size=4pt][glow=red,2,300]In madden.[/glow][/size]
    LOL

  9. #29
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "A2-D8" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
    I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
    It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.
    Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.
    LOL, your cracking me up.
    ;D

    Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

    I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.

    Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.

  10. #30
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "A2-D8" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    [quote author=mountainviking link=topic=44720.msg775461#msg775461 date=1210103659]
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.

    I recall the Vikings using a special nickel package last year that utilized Leber more often.
    I remember during the Dallas game last year there were a few plays where Leber lined up oppisite T.O. out in the flats....put some nice jams on him.
    It will be interesting to see how many nickel formations we use this year.
    Leber love? That's gotta move you up marrdro's spreadsheet. Leber is so underrated, even by viking fans.
    LOL, your cracking me up.
    ;D

    Lets not forget, Ben is more of a 3-4 DE/OLB (get after the QB) than he is a 4-3 (drop into coverage) guy that fits the mold of a Cover 2 OLB even though he had done a good job so far.

    I believe that a guy that can move a bit faster than Ben (Rufus/Erin) might be the guy that comes in for him at times this year depending on what the opposing team brings to the plate with respect to TE's/Slot recievers.

    Still underrated. Greenway has more potential maybe but Leber won the pp.o poll of who our best linebacker was last year. That's even better than madden ratings.
    [/quote]
    Not to slam my fellow PPO'rs but most of the ones who voted for him probably did because of some of his work he did in the backfield because of our lack of pass rush by the front 4.

    We need guys like Chad, EJ who can fly to the ball, drop into zone coverage as well as hold the line against the run.

    Again, I like been but he isn't quite of that mold.
    I strongly think he will eventually become one of those situational LB's who come in against a 3rd and short situation (run) or a 3rd and forever (Pass rush) situation were he can best use his skill sets.

    By the way, I wonder how those PPO'rs would vote if they actually saw him trying to drop back into coverage? Watch clips from the Dallas game.
    Leber and Chad switched all the time as Leber couldn't cover Witten.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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