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  1. #11
    LAVike is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    Good read.
    Thanks for the link!
    "Veni, Vidi, Vikings!"--Julius Caesar

  2. #12
    BradTheMan14 is offline Starter
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    what the hell is the big nickel. sounds silly to me.
    Q: At your age, can you handle a full season?
    A: I m 37, number one. I took my family to Perkins a couple of days ago, and they didn t hand me a senior citizens discount card, so I feel pretty good.
    (Brad Johnson at an interview before the start of the season)

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    Enter safeties like Johnson, who — at 6-1 and 207 pounds
    Or use a couple of bigger corners that can also play safety......

    23 Cedric Griffin CB 25 6-0 203 2 Texas
    31 Marcus McCauley CB 24 6-0 203 R Fresno State

    Comeon people, when I say we are looking for DB's that can play S or CB I get beat up, but let Kirwin say it and now its gospel.

    ;D

    Truth of the matter is in the scheme we run no one runs with/covers a TE as its a layered approach to how you will negate the TE threat like we saw with Witten.


    As the TE leaves the line of scrimmage he is first covered by a LB (if they don't have to rush the passer) who is the first guy in the zone who then turns the guy over to a S as he gets into the next zone/layers.
    The tricky part is that the S, CB, LB'rs all need to know who what when and were they are covering as they face multiple reciever threats.



    The three linebackers and two cornerbacks are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers general zone is between the cornerbacks covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the run. The cornerbacks protect the sidelines of the field from the line of scrimmage to anywhere between 15-20 yards out. An additional requirement for all of Dungy's linebackers and cornerbacks is to be above-average tacklers, as they are usually the primary tacklers in the defense.
    The two safeties are responsible for covering their respective halves of the field from 20 yards out and more. The safeties in the system are expected to be above-average cover men with the ability to break up passes, but each safety also is expected to have additional specific skills. The strong safeties, while not expected to be great tacklers, are expected to be hard hitters. The hard hitting strong safety protects the middle of the field from being exploited by small, fast wide receivers, and running backs on 'Wheel' routes, by intimidating them to not run their routes in that direction. The free safety will be called upon to do one of two things in certain situations, either blitz the quarterback, requiring him to have the skills necessary to beat a blocking running back or fullback, or to assume the coverage zone left by a blitzing cornerback.
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Garland" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    Misleading title. You are simply lining up a safety at nickelback, not actually in a 3-safety formation.

    I would definetly like to see it in action though, as TEs have killed us the last two years.
    I didn't name the thread just used the existing one from the story. In reality though you are still using 3 Safeties as the NB is more traditionally a 3rd CB
    Not Calling you out, but the article instead. I agree, you are using 3-safeties, but it is not a 3-safety formation. When all is said and done we are arguing about the name of it, and "Big Nickel" solves that.

    The Big Nickel does not mesh with how we usually play nickel defense though. Remember that we moved Winfield to nickelback and let McCauley play CB. This was so Winfield could add better support in run defense. Obviously we'll never take Winny out of the game by choice, so I'm assuming we move him back outside to CB and put Johnson in instead of McCauley?

    It at least adds an interesting little twist to TC.

    The truth is there is no reason for us to be in a nickel defense when the offense is running a Two WR, One TE set. With an expected improvement in pass rush, I would rather have us stay in the base cover 2 and pressure the damn QB. Let the LB, who was blitzing last year, cover the TE. Alsof they run (which is very possible from that set) a LB is going to shed the block of a pulling lineman or a leading FB better than a safety can. Johnson looks to be very solid in run support though.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  5. #15
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Enter safeties like Johnson, who — at 6-1 and 207 pounds
    Or use a couple of bigger corners that can also play safety......

    23 Cedric Griffin CB 25 6-0 203 2 Texas
    31 Marcus McCauley CB 24 6-0 203 R Fresno State

    Comeon people, when I say we are looking for DB's that can play S or CB I get beat up, but let Kirwin say it and now its gospel.
    ;D

    Truth of the matter is in the scheme we run no one runs with/covers a TE as its a layered approach to how you will negate the TE threat like we saw with Witten.


    As the TE leaves the line of scrimmage he is first covered by a LB (if they don't have to rush the passer) who is the first guy in the zone who then turns the guy over to a S as he gets into the next zone/layers.
    The tricky part is that the S, CB, LB'rs all need to know who what when and were they are covering as they face multiple reciever threats.



    The three linebackers and two cornerbacks are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers general zone is between the cornerbacks covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the run. The cornerbacks protect the sidelines of the field from the line of scrimmage to anywhere between 15-20 yards out. An additional requirement for all of Dungy's linebackers and cornerbacks is to be above-average tacklers, as they are usually the primary tacklers in the defense.
    The two safeties are responsible for covering their respective halves of the field from 20 yards out and more. The safeties in the system are expected to be above-average cover men with the ability to break up passes, but each safety also is expected to have additional specific skills. The strong safeties, while not expected to be great tacklers, are expected to be hard hitters. The hard hitting strong safety protects the middle of the field from being exploited by small, fast wide receivers, and running backs on 'Wheel' routes, by intimidating them to not run their routes in that direction. The free safety will be called upon to do one of two things in certain situations, either blitz the quarterback, requiring him to have the skills necessary to beat a blocking running back or fullback, or to assume the coverage zone left by a blitzing cornerback.
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2
    Why put Griffin in the slot he's fine occupying the outside. McCauley is most likely going to be our NB, but Antoine will move to the slot when he comes in as usual. This 'Big Nickel' will be used a few times throughout the season, I'm sure as we want to get Johnson as many touches as we can this season, without starting him. I remember seeing Tank come in on nickel last year, on occasion.

  6. #16
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.








    Williams












    Johnson













    Sharper

























    EJ









    Chad

    Griffin















    Allen

    Williams

    DT

    Edwards











    Winfield

    When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
    I'd much rather have:












    Madieu












    Sharper








    McCauley














    EJ











    Chad

    Griffin








    Robison


    KWill


    Allen


    Edwards








    Winfield
    McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


    With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

    And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

    And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.































  7. #17
    DustinDupont's Avatar
    DustinDupont is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.







    Williams











    Johnson













    Sharper
























    EJ








    Chad

    Griffin















    Allen

    Williams
    DT
    Edwards










    Winfield

    When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
    I'd much rather have:











    Madieu












    Sharper







    McCauley












    EJ











    Chad

    Griffin








    Robison

    KWill

    Allen


    Edwards








    Winfield
    McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


    With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

    And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

    And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.






























    Johnson would be used is the nickel back in the formation...

  8. #18
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "Three Safety Formation" Makes it sound like there will be three safeties deep. And I think we'd get picked apart over the middle.








    Williams












    Johnson













    Sharper

























    EJ









    Chad

    Griffin















    Allen

    Williams

    DT

    Edwards











    Winfield

    When really, putting Johnson in as the Nickel Corner just does takes a real corner off the field.
    I'd much rather have:











    Madieu












    Sharper








    McCauley












    EJ











    Chad

    Griffin








    Robison


    KWill


    Allen


    Edwards








    Winfield
    McCauley's not a LB there, the bottom line of text was too crowded. He's the nickel CB.


    With Madieu and Sharper covering their deep halves, all 3 corners man-on-man, and either EJ or Chad on the TE(not against guys like Kellen Winslow though, tight ends with normal tight end speed) we could match up no problem with 4 WR formations.

    And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

    And if we move Allen to the inside for the down, working on the right guard, who's usually the worst pass blocking lineman on the team, we'll get ridiculous pressure. I'm feeling a lot of interceptions this season.






























    Johnson would be used is the nickel back in the formation...
    What? Did you read the post, or just look at the diagram? I said that I'd rather have McCauley in as the nickel corner, the "3 safety formation" this article addresses is just putting a safety in place of the nickel corner to match up with bigger TEs. Which is why I included:
    And as far as Johnson coming in to be more physical because of his size, Marcus McCauley is 6'1 203, and Johnson is 6'1 207. The size difference is negligible, and McCauley is a better athlete, with more experience.... and actually plays cornerback in the NFL.

  9. #19
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  10. #20
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Three-safety formation?

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    In a standard 4-3 defense, the middle LB stays underneath the safeties and covers short underneath routes and helps in run defense. In the Tampa 2, the middle LB is expected to drop into deep coverage in the middle essentially converting a Cover 2 into a Cover 3. This protects against the deep pass very well and changes the assignments. Every player is now responsible for less field, and the deep routes are covered better. Only the other two LBs and the two CBs have to cover slightly more ground.
    Hmm, maybe, we were just a bit off on that "tweener" idea.
    Maybe the combo we were looking for was S/LB.
    Boulware fits that mold.
    But I think I like the way Tyrell shoots from the secondary into the action even better!

    I'll agree, I think MacCauley will see most of the action at Nickel back, and Winfield will continue to slide inside on those downs.
    MacC has got the experience there, and the size.
    But, I can see bringing this 3 S set on once in awhile, just as a changeup/trick look.
    Any one of those Safties could blitz too...or stay back in coverage...lots of options from a different look.
    Good stuff for F'n with young/nervous QBs like we'll see vs. DET, CHI, GB, CAR, TEN, ATL and maybe even NYG.
    In theory the MLB should be able to cover as deep as a safety in the cover 2, but NFL coaches know that's unrealistic. The safeties have the deep halves, and the MLB basically covers underneath those two. This diagram I found shows that they basically go into deep thirds, but you can see the MLB's zone stops at a certain depth, while the safeties continue until the goal line.


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