Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 77
  1. #21
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    Here is the litmus test I used when Manning was considering what team to go to... how would the Viking's offense look with Manning or Brady, ceteris paribus? If everything is exactly the same except for the QB, what does our team's future look like?

    THAT, more than anything else, tells me Ponder needs to go. If he were to shake off this numbness he seems to ooze next week, I would be the first to say I was wrong and be supportive. I am a fan, and just want my team to be GOOD!

    But...does anyone here think that is going to happen?
    I've given up on Ponder so I would like to see a change now. We went through the, ceteris paribus if you like, in '09 with Favre and still found a way to lose. Seems to be a Viking tradition.

    I agree with Caine. The Wilfs have failed to hire a championship caliber football staff.
    There is more to the problem than Ponder, but replacing him would be a good place to start.

  2. #22
    MaxVike's Avatar
    MaxVike is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,551
    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    I agree. Christian needs to do a better job on defense. The way he let the Bears march downfield like that was embarrassing.
    I think he's talking about our last drive, where they didn't give Ponder a shot for the TD on third down.
    Ah, yeah. Thx IBP

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  3. #23
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,840
    Oh boy, where do I start!? First off, I think Cassel looked even worse in preseason, and was a turnover machine for KC the past two years averaging about 2 personal TOs/game and under 60% completions. In other words, don't expect our offense to look any better with him than Ponder. He might be an improvement on the passing game over Webb, but the mobility comparison balances some of that out too...specially given the trouble blocking blitzers that our guys up front have shown thus far this year!?! D'oh!!

    Secondly, sure, rookies come in and have great first years, but most of the time, they have a much tougher time in year 2 as the opposing defenses now have had an entire year of film to study and devise ways to stop that guy. Look at RG3 and Russell Wilson this year and Cam Newton too...all three guys' stats have come way back to earth. Sure, you can say RG3 is putting up numbers, but they have all been garbage time stats vs. prevent defense and his team is also 0-2.

    Third, yes it is obviously becoming more and more of a passing league every year, BUT! And I mean BIG BUTT like that lady singing in the third row of the church choir be having, BUT!! Look at who played in the Superbowl last year, and who else came close...Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks all have a very strong running game to help eat clock and give their defenses a break. The running game is not dead.

    So, now, back to our starting QB of the moment and our 0-2 start. First off, on that last 3rd and goal, knowing we needed more that a 6 point lead, I was thinking fake the handoff to Peterson and roll Ponder out to his right with Rudolf or the FB in the back corner...with the attention they have to give AP up the middle, they likely can't cover both Ponder rushing for the near corner and Rudolf's jump ball at the same time, we just have to trust that CP makes the right decision to get the score. Rushing straight up vs. that D, even with AP? A lil too vanilla and predictable, sorry Musgrave, but I think you need to try harder than that.

    Ponder's performance? Absolutely terrible for the first 3 halves of the year! But, that last half of last week's game at the Bears he finally showed some accuracy and touch on some passes that was impressive as hell, because their secondary is good, and they were playing good coverage, and Ponder had to put those balls right, exactly into tight holes to avoid more tips and INTs and complete the pass. Will he ever do that consistently? I don't know, but the fact that I've seen that level of touch and accuracy on downfield throws combined with the lack of talent behind him at QB, tells me we need, almost have to give him some more time...maybe he does get better, and that consistency grows...

    Including that touchdown series late in the first half, Ponder completed 12 of his final 18 passes for 175 yards. Not Aaron Rodgers numbers, but clearly a step in the right direction for Ponder, who had one pass intercepted by Bears cornerback Tim Jennings and returned for a touchdown.
    Minnesota Vikings: Christian Ponder rallies with strong second half - TwinCities.com

    66.67% is a pretty durn good completion rate, and 9.72 yards per attempt would currently be Third In The League, better than Peyton Manning even. Potential is there, now can he tap it more often and someday, consistently? Perhaps. And, given the other options, I believe we are still best off seeing if he does improve. And, really, if he fails, I suspect we'll see a week or two of ugly, turnover plagued games out of Cassel followed by giving MBT a chance, and really, I think I'd rather see what MBT has, cuz Cassel has pretty much already shown what he has.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  4. #24
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,910
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    Oh boy, where do I start!? First off, I think Cassel looked even worse in preseason, and was a turnover machine for KC the past two years averaging about 2 personal TOs/game and under 60% completions. In other words, don't expect our offense to look any better with him than Ponder. He might be an improvement on the passing game over Webb, but the mobility comparison balances some of that out too...specially given the trouble blocking blitzers that our guys up front have shown thus far this year!?! D'oh!!

    Secondly, sure, rookies come in and have great first years, but most of the time, they have a much tougher time in year 2 as the opposing defenses now have had an entire year of film to study and devise ways to stop that guy. Look at RG3 and Russell Wilson this year and Cam Newton too...all three guys' stats have come way back to earth. Sure, you can say RG3 is putting up numbers, but they have all been garbage time stats vs. prevent defense and his team is also 0-2.

    Third, yes it is obviously becoming more and more of a passing league every year, BUT! And I mean BIG BUTT like that lady singing in the third row of the church choir be having, BUT!! Look at who played in the Superbowl last year, and who else came close...Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks all have a very strong running game to help eat clock and give their defenses a break. The running game is not dead.

    So, now, back to our starting QB of the moment and our 0-2 start. First off, on that last 3rd and goal, knowing we needed more that a 6 point lead, I was thinking fake the handoff to Peterson and roll Ponder out to his right with Rudolf or the FB in the back corner...with the attention they have to give AP up the middle, they likely can't cover both Ponder rushing for the near corner and Rudolf's jump ball at the same time, we just have to trust that CP makes the right decision to get the score. Rushing straight up vs. that D, even with AP? A lil too vanilla and predictable, sorry Musgrave, but I think you need to try harder than that.

    Ponder's performance? Absolutely terrible for the first 3 halves of the year! But, that last half of last week's game at the Bears he finally showed some accuracy and touch on some passes that was impressive as hell, because their secondary is good, and they were playing good coverage, and Ponder had to put those balls right, exactly into tight holes to avoid more tips and INTs and complete the pass. Will he ever do that consistently? I don't know, but the fact that I've seen that level of touch and accuracy on downfield throws combined with the lack of talent behind him at QB, tells me we need, almost have to give him some more time...maybe he does get better, and that consistency grows...



    Minnesota Vikings: Christian Ponder rallies with strong second half - TwinCities.com

    66.67% is a pretty durn good completion rate, and 9.72 yards per attempt would currently be Third In The League, better than Peyton Manning even. Potential is there, now can he tap it more often and someday, consistently? Perhaps. And, given the other options, I believe we are still best off seeing if he does improve. And, really, if he fails, I suspect we'll see a week or two of ugly, turnover plagued games out of Cassel followed by giving MBT a chance, and really, I think I'd rather see what MBT has, cuz Cassel has pretty much already shown what he has.
    There are some holes in your logic.
    1) Cassell played with a 2nd string line and our 2nd string Wrs... Our 1st string offense is barely on par.

    2) KC was a true mess the last couple of years. OL, WR and TE were serious issues.

    3) Ponder is on his 3rd year not 2nd and the teams that Cam and the rest have played are great teams. We played the Lions and the Bears. RG3 played eagles and GB. Seattle played SF and Carolina (i think). Basically we played two average team and Ponder has more picks than tds.

    4) I don't think the light is ever going to go on and STAY on with Ponder. He will always be up and down. We can do better.

  5. #25
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    There are some holes in your logic.
    1) Cassell played with a 2nd string line and our 2nd string Wrs... Our 1st string offense is barely on par.

    2) KC was a true mess the last couple of years. OL, WR and TE were serious issues.

    3) Ponder is on his 3rd year not 2nd and the teams that Cam and the rest have played are great teams. We played the Lions and the Bears. RG3 played eagles and GB. Seattle played SF and Carolina (i think). Basically we played two average team and Ponder has more picks than tds.

    4) I don't think the light is ever going to go on and STAY on with Ponder. He will always be up and down. We can do better.
    You also forgot that in Cassel's second year as a CHief, he threw 262/450, 3116, 27td, 7int, 93qbr and made the pro bowl.

    Give him a chance, and receivers and he CAN be an alright option. The chiefs have been a mess though in the past few years, and it's not all Cassel's fault.

  6. #26
    drewlovs's Avatar
    drewlovs is offline Asst. Coach
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    591
    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    What have you been reading????? Every thread here becomes a Ponder sucks, Ponder has to go. If a thread were started about puppies, somehow it would become a ponder sucks thread.
    After THREE years!! I lived near SF for a long time, and they ran like 4 QBs out on a rail after half a season (each QB got up to 6ish games before the fans got their panties in a bunch). In fact, can you name another team that has a fan base that would not be in revolt if their QB was as bad as Ponder after a single season?

    I'm all for give players the chance to develop, but it sounds like you are being very hard on Vikings fans because they are frustrated...after THREE YEARS...with Ponder. How long do you think he should get before fans are allowed to legitimately scream for his head? Four years? FIVE years?
    Last edited by drewlovs; 09-19-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  7. #27
    drewlovs's Avatar
    drewlovs is offline Asst. Coach
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    591
    I really wanted Ponder to work out; I was extremely hopeful at the beginning of the season, especially after the end of last season's results. But the problems I am seeing with his game are things that should not be there after so much playing time. I just don't think they are fixable, and as such, the team's gamble didn't pay off.

    I do not think Cassel is the answer either, but seeing how much rope we gave Ponder, I don't think it's crazy to give Cassel half the amount and see where we are. The pieces are in place for a really good team! Here in Oregon, the attention for football is split between Seattle and SF, and the only thing that I was able to get from the local sports guys on the vikings was, the OL is very good, and with AD, Jennings and Patterson, how good the Vikings will be rests in Ponder's hands.

    Maybe those guys are wrong, but I tend to agree with them.

  8. #28
    marshallvike's Avatar
    marshallvike is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Posts
    2,471
    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    After THREE years!! I lived near SF for a long time, and they ran like 4 QBs out on a rail after half a season (each QB got up to 6ish games before the fans got their panties in a bunch). In fact, can you name another team that has a fan base that would not be in revolt if their QB was as bad as Ponder after a single season?

    I'm all for give players the chance to develop, but it sounds like you are being very hard on Vikings fans because they are frustrated...after THREE YEARS...with Ponder. How long do you think he should get before fans are allowed to legitimately scream for his head? Four years? FIVE years?
    First off, welcome to the site. Keep posting with fervor.
    the fact that very few fans here are screaming for Ponder's head after almost 3 years does show the Vikings fans give players many chances to prove themselves.
    That is what I responded to, and my response was correct. If you read many threads here you will see that.
    I am suggesting that there are other things to talk about with the Vikings. Unfortunately, any thread about any player that gets any legs inevitably ends up the same, Ponder sucks.
    Not sure if you are aware or not, but Ponder has not played here for three years. He has been with the team for two full seasons and two games. He didn't start for the first 5 or 6 games 2 years ago. I go back to Drew Brees. He was the same as Ponder after two years. Same hatred from the fans there also. The team even gave up on him and drafted another QB in the first round after his second season.He turned out pretty good.
    That said,I am a little disappointed also. Although there is progression in his development, it is not as big a jump as I expected this year. Cleveland will make him look better. I am still holding out hope that it will click. If not, we may have to salvage the season with Cassel if it's not too late.
    Again, welcome
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #29
    vikinggreg's Avatar
    vikinggreg is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    4,771
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    3) Ponder is on his 3rd year not 2nd and the teams that Cam and the rest have played are great teams. We played the Lions and the Bears. RG3 played eagles and GB. Seattle played SF and Carolina (i think). Basically we played two average team and Ponder has more picks than tds.
    I don't think the Bears or Lions are average and wouldn't be surprise if the Bears are 3-0 next week and Lions are 2-1 and one of them is facing RG3...and Cam and the Panthers lost to the Bills which even Rivera said was "as bad as it gets"

  10. #30
    JPPT1974's Avatar
    JPPT1974 is offline Starter
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    250
    If Ponder continues to flop, they might switch to Cassel. But right with one person on the forum. Both don't seem to be the long term answer at QB. Frazier can't keep on relying upon Adrian Peterson to carry the team if the team has no QB!
    NFL 2013 is Here!

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •