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  1. #1
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    I picked up my copy of the "2007 NFL Football Prospectus", which I use as my "Bible" for the upcoming season each year. I consider this book very, very accurate in its team and player ratings, as evidenced in years past.

    Here is what they say about the Vikings and particularly Tarvaris Jackson:

    - Coach Childress evidently "didn't get the memo" that you win in the NFL through the air, not between the tackles. This has been true at least since 1990. Childress comes from the "old school" U-Wisconsin system, and coached Ron Dayne. I.e. Childress likes to "pound the pill".

    - As a result, the Vikings have massively invested in the line on both sides. The result: the best run-stopping D-line since the 2000 Ravens. The offensive line is also very, very good.

    - And yet: there is no pass rush. The Vikings D-line is very odd in that it is air-tight against the run, but can't pass rush to save its own life. Udezi played in 16 games and had ZERO sacks last year.

    Tarvaris: this is where they really turn sceptical. The basically say, Tarvaris is "unproven". They say, Childress thinks he can turn T-Jax into McNabb. And yet, IF T-Jax had that upside, the reality is, he would have ridiculous physical abilities (think Vince Young). Tarvaris does not have those abilities that he can then "fill out" with NFL analytical skills. T-Jax is mediocre to good, nothing more. He has a strong arm, but is not accurate with his throws. He tends to flush himself out of the pocket immediately when his first read is not there (just like Culpepper, he can't read a defense, and then just runs and tries to make things happen that way). Unlike Culpepper, he does not throw deep with much accuracy. In short, T-Jax is unproven, not that accurate, unable to really read a defense, and unlikely to really get much better.

    Most likely scenario: Tarvaris is mediocre. The Vikings go 7-9 or 8-8 and don't make the playoffs.

    I wish this were different. I think we need a real QB and a real Passing Game !!

  2. #2
    tb04512's Avatar
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    well your bible obviously is the old testament, Tarvaris had some very nice downfield throws, he started 2 games seriously give him time,and for the d-line Udeze would have had 2 sacks and a FF but both of them got called back, he played out of position, and was coming off an injury, and some other article i read said we were #8 in Qb hurries which i believe some will turn into sacks.

    O and you do win the game between the tackles, wear down the defense make them stack the box and it allows you to pass, all about line play go ask denver and all their Rb's they have had since shanahan has been there

    Thanks josdin00

  3. #3
    thevikingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    wow he got all that from his 2 games as a rookie?This guy is almost as much of a genius as peter king

  4. #4
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    Last I checked, Tarvaris has thrown more INTs than TDs. To me, that does not suggest that he will be that good.

    Let's remember: Tarvaris went to a 1-AA school. NO NFL team, aside from the Vikings, had him high on any board on Draft day. To me, that says something. Do you really think that 31 NFL teams, their coaches, and all their scouts somehow missed that ? And the difference between McNabb and him is, McNabb went to a more or less "big time school". Could it be that Childress just wants T-Jax as "window dressing" so that he can "pound the pill" between tackles ?

    Childress says he can turn T-Jax into McNabb, which is a VERY bold statement. I have not seen that T-Jax has nearly the abilities of McNabb (McNabb doesn't flush himself from the pocket whenever the first read is covered, and McNabb can read a defense).

    Remember that Akili Smith had great "upside" when he came into the NFL as a QB (6-3, 220 with "athetic ability" and "can run". I see no reason to not believe that T-Jax is the next Akili Smith.
    :

    Does anyone really believe we could beat an NFL team like the Colts or Pats, with a QB like that ? You don't take it to the next level in the NFL these days by pounding the pill. You have to be able to throw, or the Patriots or Colts will just play with you in the Super Bowl.

  5. #5
    tb04512's Avatar
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    "StillPurple" wrote:
    Last I checked, Tarvaris has thrown more INTs than TDs. To me, that does not suggest that he will be that good.

    Let's remember: Tarvaris went to a 1-AA school. NO NFL team, aside from the Vikings, had him high on any board on Draft day. To me, that says something. Do you really think that 31 NFL teams, their coaches, and all their scouts somehow missed that
    ? And the difference between McNabb and him is, McNabb went to a more or less "big time school". Could it be that Childress just wants T-Jax as "window dressing" so that he can "pound the pill" between tackles ?

    Childress says he can turn T-Jax into McNabb, which is a VERY bold statement. I have not seen that T-Jax has nearly the abilities of McNabb.

    Remember that Akili Smith had great "upside" when he came into the NFL as a QB.
    :
    first of all 2 td 4 int then a rushing td, rookies make mistakes this isnt pop warner where you can just show up and be amazing.. and if you watched the draft last year you wouldve seen the analysts talking about how good of a pick it was and that many teams were looking at him and he would have been a rd 3-4 pick, so imo it was a smart move to grab him when we did instead of being stuck with some one else... Akili smith played like 19 college games that gives you no time to work on your game

    Thanks josdin00

  6. #6
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    Ok, but answer me this question: do you really think that T-Jax can be "the next McNabb" ? I don't.

    Ability to run is nice, but you have to have the ability to read a defense and not wig out when your first receiver in the progression is covered. If you look at the teams who win it in the NFL these days, they are pocket passers like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, who stand in the pocket when the world is collapsing around them, and go through their reads. Notice that the slot receiver has become more and more important to winning teams. Why ? Because he is often the 4th guy in the progression. that is why the Colts won the Show: their slot receiver, often a tight end. It is the same with most teams who win the Show, going back to Aikman. I don't think you can win the Super Bowl these days without a QB who does that.

    Running and being able to throw hard might look good, but it just is not enough.

  7. #7
    ultravikingfan's Avatar
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    I think you need to realize that the verdict is still out on this guy.

  8. #8
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    happy camper is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    "StillPurple" wrote:


    Let's remember: Tarvaris went to a 1-AA school. NO NFL team, aside from the Vikings, had him high on any board on Draft day. To me, that says something. Do you really think that 31 NFL teams, their coaches, and all their scouts somehow missed that ? And the difference between McNabb and him is, McNabb went to a more or less "big time school". Could it be that Childress just wants T-Jax as "window dressing" so that he can "pound the pill" between tackles ?

    Nice logic.

    Using your logic, Marques Colston and Tom Brady suck because nobody had them high on their boards. . And since every team had their eye on Eli, he is awesome.

    "There is good and there is evil. And evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I will not compromise."

  9. #9
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    I think its funny all these people making predictions on how good or bad TJ will be based on two games last year at the end of a losing season.
    Brad Johnson who has years of experience and a SB ring wasn't getting it done either with the team and play calling we had last year.
    The truth is no one knows whether TJ can cut it or not at this point.
    We won't know until training camp is over either.


    IMO the only thing that is really important this year is can we shut down the passing game on defense.
    If we can't do that it won't matter how good or bad TJ is.

    WWBGD

  10. #10
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Tarvaris + MN exposed !

    Tom Brady went to Michigan, a major college football program. In addition, Brady exhibits all the qualities that I see missing in Tarvaris: a. ability to read a defense, b. ability to stand in the pocket under pressure, c. ability to do the progression and not "wig out" when guys are covered, c. accuracy, d. leadership. (e. 3 RINGS !).

    Re Marques Colston, I do not think he was high on the radar of teams, until his "break out" year last season. But I also think comparing a receiver to a QB is meaningless, because the requirements of being an NFL QB today are so much more cerebral than being a WR.

    Re the post above this one: yes, we don't know if he can "cut it", and I agree with you 100%.

    But to me, that is all the more reason to go after a QB who we know can cut it. Why risk going 7-9 or 6-10 with an unknown quantity, when we could have had David Carr or just kept Brad ? (note: I would have preferred Brad over Tarvaris). I see experienced NFL QBs who are way better and proven in the NFL over many seasons, riding the pine, while we gamble our season on a QB from 1-AA Alabama State (!).
    :

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