Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 73
  1. #11
    snowinapril's Avatar
    snowinapril is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    13,404

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    It goes to show that this is still a team game.
    Sure a QBs stats matter but surrounding a player with a TEAM of good players helps a bunch.

    For instance, Steve Young got those numbers above with the Yuckaneers.
    He moved to SF and instantly gained 10 points.
    He only started 3 games that year (behind Joe Montana) but was already improved by the move to SF.

    WE are putting a solid team around TJ, we could use one more WR to take another step towards getting more quality
    players around TJ.

  2. #12
    aaeyers's Avatar
    aaeyers is offline Pro-Bowler
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    436

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Just goes to show you that it is possible to hand pick players and stats to make gol 'darnit near any argument you want to make.


    Throw in guys like

    Troy Smith,
    Andre Ware,
    Omar Jacobs
    Quincy Carter
    Giovanni Carmazzi
    Chris Redmon
    Akili Smith
    Tony Banks
    Kordell Stewart
    Jeff Blake


    And see what happens to your statistics.
    My guess is your results will be quite different
    Actually (whether you believe me or not) I didn't look at the stats until I had picked the players. I just picked names off the top of my head (from McNabb to Tarkenton), and then to get the rest I googled 'scrambling quarterbacks, and picked the rest off of this list,

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/30/gallery.scrambling/content.1.html

    Although I did leave Doug Flutie off, because he didn't really start a full season until his fifth or sixth seasons.

    Your point is still valid though, I'm sure it would be possible to get much different results using different players. But I think that with an average from ten players, the results are pretty standard. And my goal of making this table was not to prove a point, I merely was wondering myself how he compared, and I just figured you guys would be interested as well.

  3. #13
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    969

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "snowinapril" wrote:
    It goes to show that this is still a team game.
    Sure a QBs stats matter but surrounding a player with a TEAM of good players helps a bunch.

    For instance, Steve Young got those numbers above with the Yuckaneers.
    He moved to SF and instantly gained 10 points.
    He only started 3 games that year (behind Joe Montana) but was already improved by the move to SF.

    WE are putting a solid team around TJ, we could use one more WR to take another step towards getting more quality
    players around TJ.
    I'm sure working with a guy like Joe Montana for a year or two didn't hurt either... how about that receiving corp he inherited?
    Frankly, any argument about the "team" supporting a QB only helps TJ's argument.
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  4. #14
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,005

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    While those stats may quell the natives rubes from getting too restless, we still know that TJ is sometimes reckless and doesn't always have good throwing mechanics and sometimes tries to force the ball.

    You'll notice I bolded some portions because I don't think anyone disagrees that the kid has a rocket for an arm. He just loses his head at times and hasn't developed a real "touch" on the ball yet.
    I think TJ is going to be a very good NFL QB. And he may in fact be that next year.
    The pass stats you quote can be "padded" to a degree. For instance, his % of completions to attempts is probably high because he doesn't throw downfield much. I don't know how much of that the other QB's did. And that would also effect his rating.
    But to the point of my post...
    I don't think anyone here disagrees that we need better backups than we have. If we were to lose TJ for a few games as we did this last year I don't want Holcomb out there if we can help it.
    So I'm torn between getting a good backup QB for TJK or getting a starter like McNabb who can teach TJ and let him learn for one more year.
    I'm getting the feeling though that Childress would prefer to go the backup route and that may be just fine. Whoever he chooses will be OK with me as long as it isn't one of the two backup QB's we already have.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  5. #15
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "pack93z" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Just goes to show you that it is possible to hand pick players and stats to make damn near any argument you want to make.


    Throw in guys like

    Troy Smith,
    Andre Ware,
    Omar Jacobs
    Quincy Carter
    Giovanni Carmazzi
    Chris Redmon
    Akili Smith
    Tony Banks
    Kordell Stewart
    Jeff Blake


    And see what happens to your statistics.
    My guess is your results will be quite different
    Won't that make TJ's stats look even better though... taking guys with good numbers should hurt the TJ comparison.. or am I thinking wrong per normal?
    '


    It may make them better or worse depending on the question you are asking.

    If you are comparing win percentage, he would look pretty good.
    If you are comparing games sat out in the first 2 seasons due to injury, maybe not as good.
    If you are looking for a history of quarterbacks who were drafted for mobility and a strong arm and how many actually pan out despite the hype he has a long road ahead of him.


    That is my point. You can pick 10 guys and pull up all kinds of stats out of your butt to support an argument or you can make an argument and pull 10 random QB's over the last 40 years to support
    what you said but in the end it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. We are talking football not making cookies.

  6. #16
    digital420's Avatar
    digital420 is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Ancient Korinthia
    Posts
    2,541

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    first off aaeyers great post!

    I agree that stats can be misleading, but his actions did show vast improvement over the last 2 years

    as been said over and over all year "he's gonna make some mistakes, he's gonna have bad games".
    well he did.

    from what i saw he learned, there was a different movement, pass, and accuracy i saw at the end of the year then say even the GB slaughter. now ok, having the D score for you is nice, and a backfield featuring the league's best tandem wouldn't hurt any qb. but in the end of his last game he got us 2 TD's and 2 EP's.

    i'm not gonna turn sniffer or anything, but i do believe i would rather see Tjack back in command of the offence next year then any possible FA or draft choice.

    here's
    a question for u stat hounds.

    how many games did he not throw an INT, and were there any strings of games without a/an INT/Turnover of any kind.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  7. #17
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    Good work aayers on collecting stats that back up a premise that TJ is doing as well if not better than a number of HOF'ers in their early years.
    It would probably not be real hard to find a number of QB's that started out in their first years with numbers better than TJ, but never made it real big in their careers.

    What the numbers mostly show me is that you shouldn't expect much out of your QB in the first few years, nor can you gauge how good a QB is going to be by looking at his first years' stats.
    But also that his stats are not a let down for his experience level and we shouldn't be negative on the guy based on this aspect alone.

    What makes it harder for TJ than a lot of guys you compared him to is that they came in with high expectations to be the starter and we're given a lot of rope to prove themselves.
    TJ doesn't have previous work to fall back on so in some ways he has more pressure to prove himself worthy.
    There are a lot more question marks with TJ then there was with guys like John Elway or Donovan McNabb.

  8. #18
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,602
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    While those stats may quell the natives rubes from getting too restless, we still know that TJ is sometimes reckless and doesn't always have good throwing mechanics and sometimes tries to force the ball.
    I think you can insert damn near every QB in the NFL into that sentance, especially in their second year.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,916

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "pack93z" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    Just goes to show you that it is possible to hand pick players and stats to make gol 'darnit near any argument you want to make.


    Throw in guys like

    Troy Smith,
    Andre Ware,
    Omar Jacobs
    Quincy Carter
    Giovanni Carmazzi
    Chris Redmon
    Akili Smith
    Tony Banks
    Kordell Stewart
    Jeff Blake


    And see what happens to your statistics.
    My guess is your results will be quite different
    Won't that make TJ's stats look even better though... taking guys with good numbers should hurt the TJ comparison.. or am I thinking wrong per normal?
    Ya, I guess I am a bit confused as well.

    I thought his stats were to show TJ against quality QB's (TJ's stats would be lower if he sucked) rather than crappy QB's (TJ's stats would look like a gods).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #20
    pack93z's Avatar
    pack93z is offline Team Alumni
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,465

    Re: Tarvaris Jackson vs. History

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    It may make them better or worse depending on the question you are asking.

    If you are comparing win percentage, he would look pretty good.
    If you are comparing games sat out in the first 2 seasons due to injury, maybe not as good.
    If you are looking for a history of quarterbacks who were drafted for mobility and a strong arm and how many actually pan out despite the hype he has a long road ahead of him.


    That is my point. You can pick 10 guys and pull up all kinds of stats out of your butt to support an argument or you can make an argument and pull 10 random QB's over the last 40 years to support
    what you said but in the end it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. We are talking football not making cookies.
    Well since the comparison was made only on their passing stats and used a baseline of QB rating and completion percentage, I would think QB's that panned out vs. bust would make them better. But I understand your point, but it is a more analytical way of comparison, the larger the sample base would be would give you a better idea overall.

    As far as the cookies... thanks for the tip.. it explains why Marr hasn't posted his Peanut Butter cookies recipe yet.

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Tarvaris Jackson speaks....
    By marstc09 in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 846
    Last Post: 09-20-2010, 05:31 PM
  2. Tarvaris Jackson: "It should have been us"
    By Tad7 in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 04-08-2010, 09:32 AM
  3. Tarvaris Jackson - QB Or Not QB
    By singersp in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 217
    Last Post: 03-17-2008, 10:20 AM
  4. Tarvaris Jackson
    By VIKINAT0R in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10-25-2007, 10:19 PM
  5. TARVARIS JACKSON
    By DustinDupont in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-30-2006, 10:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •