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  1. #1
    singersp's Avatar
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    Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    Fran Tarkenton's advice to Vikings owner Zygi Wilf: 'Play Joe Webb'

    Pioneer Press
    Updated: 11/23/2010 10:48:22 PM CST

    "You cannot win in this league without a competent quarterback. A lot of teams understand that. If you're going to play quarterback, you've got to jump in the pool and see if you can play or not.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #2
    purplejokr is offline Rookie
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    I read all of the other thread that had the discussion of which QB Frazier should start but it seems like this is thread where I should post my thoughts....

    FWIW, here is my .02.

    1) Those of you that believe playing Favre is a mandate from Wilf. I would like to see what evidence leads you to believe this.

    2) Frazier is going to do what is best for HIS career. That means winning football games. Consequently, Frazier will start whom he believes will win football games. Evidently, that QB is Brett Favre.

    3) How does playing Webb help the man making the decisions, Leslie Frazier? It seems to me that Webb would be a fish out of water if he was playing an NFL game right now. I just pulled up Webb's stats because I was curious... Really? We want to start the rookie who had a 150.7 QB Rating and led his team to a 5-7 record while playing college football giants like Marshall, East Carolina, & University of Central Florida? Heck, he was good enough to lead his teams to victories over stalwarts like Florida Atlantic, Memphis, & Rice.

    At the end of the day, Frazier is in charge and, logically, will do what is best for his career. He shouldn't sacrifice his career because the Vikings need to figure out what is on their bench unless ownership demands it. Otherwise, Frazier should play who he believes gives the Vikings the best chance to win games. I mean, seriously, if you're Frazier, would you bench the QB that led the Vikings to the NFCCG last season so you could see if the guys on the bench have what it takes to play at this level? Thereby, ending your coaching career in Minnesota before it starts.


  3. #3
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    Fran looks like more of an idiot every time he opens his mouth. Is he hocking another book gain?

  4. #4
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    purplejokr wrote:
    [color=#400080]1) Those of you that believe playing Favre is a mandate from Wilf. I would like to see what evidence leads you to believe this.
    Well its pretty hard to get into the front offices. I know, I've tried, so what we have is speculation based on what we do know.

    What do we know....

    a. Leslie is a defensive minded coach.
    b. When asked who was gonna be the D-coord he said he had to think about it.
    c. When asked who his starting QB was gonna be, he immediately said the Noodle.

    What we assume.....

    Assumption is that he would have a better idea who would be a better D-coord from his staff and that he would defer (or atleast confer with them) to his O-Coord/QB Coach on who they think would give them the best chance to win.

    2) Frazier is going to do what is best for HIS career. That means winning football games. Consequently, Frazier will start whom he believes will win football games. Evidently, that QB is Brett Favre.
    Right now, whats best for his career is to listen to the Owner.

    Again, facts and assumptions....

    Fact....The Wilf Ownership group has alot tied up in the Chiller.
    Assumption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of that investment.
    Assumnption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of the uncertainty surrounding league play next year.
    Assumption....No other coach will be able to work with/assess talent in the offseason if there is a holdout.

    Long story short, all Leslie has to do is not have the locker room come apart at the seams or piss the owner off and he will probably get the job.

    In the end, he was told to play the Noodle. My proof is listed above. Unless you have something better that will change my mind, I'm going with that.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    This kindof talk I really struggle with. Probably because I harken back to the days when rookies, 2nd year, heck most 3rd year players hardly ever saw the field unless it was on ST's.

    Why was that?

    It was because they weren't ready to play at the next level, especially a QB that comes from Webbs background.

    Seriously, for those of you that think we need to play Webb, you just need to harken back a few years ago when we had a broke down, limp armed QB named Brad trying to run this scheme.

    Chants went up for TJ. Good or bad, we got him for 2 games and he sucked. Not because he was bad, but because he wasn't ready.

    2007, much the same. Vets brought in were crap so in comes TJ. Again, not ready and quite frankly, the team wasn't ready either.

    Long story short, a opinion was formed over TJ from those early starts. Some say that he won't ever get any better than what we saw early on but that isn't the point here. An opinion was formed and most fans won't change that opinion even if TJ does somehow get to see the field and does well. Those fans will always harbour doubt about the kids talent.

    Why, oh why, would we want to do that with young Webb?

    Because you saw him run a few times against the backups to the backups?

    He won't be able to read what the defense is showing him and will resort to running with it instead of hitting his hot read and might even get hurt.

    Hell, a 20 year Vet is having a hard time figuring out what to do with what Defenses are doing to us, why would anyone think a rook would do any better.

    One caveat to this whole ramble of a post. He would fix our mobility issues and would force some of the teams to honor rollouts/bootlegs and heck, even a QB scramble every now and then.

    But I ask, wouldn't you rather see the 2nd stringer try to get it done first before the 3rd stringer?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #6
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    Marrdro wrote:
    purplejokr wrote:
    [color=#400080]1) Those of you that believe playing Favre is a mandate from Wilf. I would like to see what evidence leads you to believe this.
    Well its pretty hard to get into the front offices. I know, I've tried, so what we have is speculation based on what we do know.

    What do we know....

    a. Leslie is a defensive minded coach.
    b. When asked who was gonna be the D-coord he said he had to think about it.
    c. When asked who his starting QB was gonna be, he immediately said the Noodle.

    What we assume.....

    Assumption is that he would have a better idea who would be a better D-coord from his staff and that he would defer (or atleast confer with them) to his O-Coord/QB Coach on who they think would give them the best chance to win.

    2) Frazier is going to do what is best for HIS career. That means winning football games. Consequently, Frazier will start whom he believes will win football games. Evidently, that QB is Brett Favre.
    Right now, whats best for his career is to listen to the Owner.

    Again, facts and assumptions....

    Fact....The Wilf Ownership group has alot tied up in the Chiller.
    Assumption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of that investment.
    Assumnption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of the uncertainty surrounding league play next year.
    Assumption....No other coach will be able to work with/assess talent in the offseason if there is a holdout.

    Long story short, all Leslie has to do is not have the locker room come apart at the seams or piss the owner off and he will probably get the job.

    In the end, he was told to play the Noodle. My proof is listed above. Unless you have something better that will change my mind, I'm going with that.
    What Proof? Everything you listed is an assumptino!!! EVERYTHING!!!

    Purplejokr is ABSOLUTELY correct when he says that Frazier is going to do what's best for Frazier in this 6 game run as HC. He has a short window with little prep time to show that he can put the pieces together and be successful.

    That said, what logic follows that says, "Play Webb?" Because Tarkenton said so? Floop no!!! PLaying Webb is the stupidest thing he can do...


    ...and following on the heels of that, why do you risk your window of opportunity on the Quarterback that your predecessor didn't think was good enough and passed over TWICE (And NOT at the insistence of Zygi, contrary to your blatherings).

    That leaves you with one option - recreate the magic of last season. And the only QB on your roster who even has a remote shot of doing that is Favre.

    Do I want to see Favre play? Not anymore. We're done for the season, so I'd rather see Jackson - honestly. But Frazier needs to WIN, he doesn't need to assess talent for next season. He may not have this job next season.

    Finally, your assumptions about future HC's are off base as well - IMHO.

    Money isn't an issue for our next HC. Zygi will pay whatever he has to pay to the guy he ultimately chooses. Money won't be a stumbling block. And next seasons uncertainty won't factor in either. It would with a player, whose skills may or may not deteriorate in the interim, but a Coach is different. And hiring a coach at the end of the season and allowing them to put together their staff, and do all the prep work can only benefit the Vikings.

    Caine

  7. #7
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    On the good news front, the Redskins pass D is playing pretty awful for the most part.

    I bet the Vikes crush the Redskins this week. It's a good matchup for you, no matter which QB is starting, imo

  8. #8
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    dfosterf wrote:
    On the good news front, the Redskins pass D is playing pretty awful for the most part.

    I bet the Vikes crush the Redskins this week. It's a good matchup for you, no matter which QB is starting, imo
    And if we do beat a mediocre 0.500 team, some here will start talking "Wild Card" & "Super Bowl" again. LOL!

    Firing a coach won't suddenly propel us into playing like a playoff caliber team.

    Our 3 wins thus far;

    Cowboys 3-7
    Arizona 3-7
    Lions 2-8

    Anyone see a pattern?

    We haven't won a road game since Nov. 1, 1999

    We were 1-3 even with Randy Moss

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #9
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    purplejokr wrote:
    [color=#400080]1) Those of you that believe playing Favre is a mandate from Wilf. I would like to see what evidence leads you to believe this.
    Well its pretty hard to get into the front offices. I know, I've tried, so what we have is speculation based on what we do know.

    What do we know....

    a. Leslie is a defensive minded coach.
    b. When asked who was gonna be the D-coord he said he had to think about it.
    c. When asked who his starting QB was gonna be, he immediately said the Noodle.

    What we assume.....

    Assumption is that he would have a better idea who would be a better D-coord from his staff and that he would defer (or atleast confer with them) to his O-Coord/QB Coach on who they think would give them the best chance to win.

    2) Frazier is going to do what is best for HIS career. That means winning football games. Consequently, Frazier will start whom he believes will win football games. Evidently, that QB is Brett Favre.
    Right now, whats best for his career is to listen to the Owner.

    Again, facts and assumptions....

    Fact....The Wilf Ownership group has alot tied up in the Chiller.
    Assumption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of that investment.
    Assumnption....They probably can't afford to bring in a big name HC next year because of the uncertainty surrounding league play next year.
    Assumption....No other coach will be able to work with/assess talent in the offseason if there is a holdout.

    Long story short, all Leslie has to do is not have the locker room come apart at the seams or piss the owner off and he will probably get the job.

    In the end, he was told to play the Noodle. My proof is listed above. Unless you have something better that will change my mind, I'm going with that.
    What Proof? Everything you listed is an assumptino!!! EVERYTHING!!!

    Purplejokr is ABSOLUTELY correct when he says that Frazier is going to do what's best for Frazier in this 6 game run as HC. He has a short window with little prep time to show that he can put the pieces together and be successful.

    That said, what logic follows that says, "Play Webb?" Because Tarkenton said so? Floop no!!! PLaying Webb is the stupidest thing he can do...


    ...and following on the heels of that, why do you risk your window of opportunity on the Quarterback that your predecessor didn't think was good enough and passed over TWICE (And NOT at the insistence of Zygi, contrary to your blatherings).

    That leaves you with one option - recreate the magic of last season. And the only QB on your roster who even has a remote shot of doing that is Favre.

    Do I want to see Favre play? Not anymore. We're done for the season, so I'd rather see Jackson - honestly. But Frazier needs to WIN, he doesn't need to assess talent for next season. He may not have this job next season.

    Finally, your assumptions about future HC's are off base as well - IMHO.

    Money isn't an issue for our next HC. Zygi will pay whatever he has to pay to the guy he ultimately chooses. Money won't be a stumbling block. And next seasons uncertainty won't factor in either. It would with a player, whose skills may or may not deteriorate in the interim, but a Coach is different. And hiring a coach at the end of the season and allowing them to put together their staff, and do all the prep work can only benefit the Vikings.

    Caine
    Couple of thoughts......

    You don't think that my fact about the money due to the Chiller is a fact? I can go dig up the articles if you like. It isn't as bad as some think, but its still bad.

    I don't think Zygi will pay whatever the next guy wants. I don't think he has the money to keep shelling out 4 mill here for a QB, 6 mill here for a coach not coaching and then another 6-10 mill a year for the next guy.

    Nope, I think the ownership is in trouble and without a "Yea" vote on a stadium, he is gonna have to take some drastic measures.

    First one will be to go cheap on a coach.
    Second one will be to let alot of our FA walk.
    Third one will be to either move or sell the team.

    Regardless, he isn't as rich as you guys wanna think and isn't gonna keep opening his checkbook.

    My OPINION, based on what I THINK, it is gonna get uglier long before it gets better. The move to go with Leslie and the need to keep the ticket sales up by starting the Noodle are the rationale that drives what I think.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Tarkenton to Zygi: "Play Joe Webb"

    singersp wrote:
    dfosterf wrote:
    On the good news front, the Redskins pass D is playing pretty awful for the most part.

    I bet the Vikes crush the Redskins this week. It's a good matchup for you, no matter which QB is starting, imo
    And if we do beat a mediocre 0.500 team, some here will start talking "Wild Card" & "Super Bowl" again. LOL!

    Firing a coach won't suddenly propel us into playing like a playoff caliber team.

    Our 3 wins thus far;

    Cowboys 3-7
    Arizona 3-7
    Lions 2-8

    Anyone see a pattern?

    We haven't won a road game since Nov. 1, 1999

    We were 1-3 even with Randy Moss
    And IF we can't beat the Deadskins what does that say?

    I think it says what I said a few weeks ago. 1/3 of our team isn't playing ball. They are putting out just enough to get by until they can hit the FA market at the end of the season (ala Rice).

    HC takes the fall for the FO pukes once again.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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