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  1. #571
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Marrdro wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Mark_The_Viking wrote:
    The scheme doesn't dictate the fact that the FB whiffs on blocks or doesn't lead well enough to allow the HB to do his job. The jury on Tahi was out for me until I saw this year and he stinks, Is Tony Richardson still a FA?
    That isn't what I'm saying. That is like me trying to convince you that the two Whiffs that Hutch had were scheme driven.

    What the scheme drives is for our blockers to block a zone. Sometimes there are more in the zone than one blocker can handle. Sometimes no one is there (initially) and then it is flooded. Sometimes the defender does his job and makes him miss.

    Again, much more to the game than our guys getting it right each and every time and that includes everyone, not just Tahi.

    Watch the play and you will see all of them do it at one point or another. Again, that is scheme driven in most instances.
    It going watch the Jets, they carry 2 FB's on their roster including Richardson. Jets are a run heavy O, which anyone would be with Sanchez as your QB, so I expect to see the FB often. Let's see how their FB does in opening holes not just running through them.
    I think you might be a bit suprised.

    Remember when I did that last year for a couple of games? Very few commented on my observations.

    My guess, like we saw in pre-season, Conner will get the predominance of the reps. That kid appears to be a true FB.

    Another little detail to watch, that I saw last year. Mangold is worth every penny the spent on him. Thier line shifts are always correct and he is a monster when it comes to getting two when he seals from the inside.

    I really like our C, but I don't think he is quite on par with the Mangold.
    So Gagarr, what did you see?

    From my chart.....

    T-rich was in on 5 plays in the first half and 5 in the second.

    He was the lead blocker twice, both runs gained two yards.
    He caught 2 passes, one for 6 and one for 3.

    He missed his blocking assignment on the Wildcat play, was blown up by Ray "Im a murderer" Lewis which resulted in a tackle for a loss and missed his blocking assignment when he was in a split back set which resulted in a sack.

    On a side note, anyone watch Birk? LOL, his blocking assigment recovered two fumbles, he was blown up by Jenkins early and often. Best thing that happened for Matt was when he went down. Then he struggled with Pohua. He missed 4, possibly 5 (I scribbled one out cause I felt sorry for him) blitzes up the middle as he bounced between the G's helping them out instead of recognizing the blitz.

    I quit counting at 10 on how many plays he was left standing all alone, not engaged with anyone. And for those of you who don't know, thats a bad thing in a Zone Blocking Scheme.

    Sad to see one of the games greats hanging on like that.
    Sorry Mar, I planned on Tivoing it, but didn't set it. I did watch some of the 2nd half but didn't really pay attention to what the fullback was doing. Did you notice if the other FB, other than Richardson, on their roster played at all?

    Also, I'm NOT one for having Richardson back. I'm not one for even having a FB, as AD does better without Tahi.

    What I am for is getting a worthless guy off the roster and either bringing in a FB that can get the job done or going without the FB all together.

    Tahi hurts more than helps.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  2. #572
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    gagarr wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Mark_The_Viking wrote:
    The scheme doesn't dictate the fact that the FB whiffs on blocks or doesn't lead well enough to allow the HB to do his job. The jury on Tahi was out for me until I saw this year and he stinks, Is Tony Richardson still a FA?
    That isn't what I'm saying. That is like me trying to convince you that the two Whiffs that Hutch had were scheme driven.

    What the scheme drives is for our blockers to block a zone. Sometimes there are more in the zone than one blocker can handle. Sometimes no one is there (initially) and then it is flooded. Sometimes the defender does his job and makes him miss.

    Again, much more to the game than our guys getting it right each and every time and that includes everyone, not just Tahi.

    Watch the play and you will see all of them do it at one point or another. Again, that is scheme driven in most instances.
    It going watch the Jets, they carry 2 FB's on their roster including Richardson. Jets are a run heavy O, which anyone would be with Sanchez as your QB, so I expect to see the FB often. Let's see how their FB does in opening holes not just running through them.
    I think you might be a bit suprised.

    Remember when I did that last year for a couple of games? Very few commented on my observations.

    My guess, like we saw in pre-season, Conner will get the predominance of the reps. That kid appears to be a true FB.

    Another little detail to watch, that I saw last year. Mangold is worth every penny the spent on him. Thier line shifts are always correct and he is a monster when it comes to getting two when he seals from the inside.

    I really like our C, but I don't think he is quite on par with the Mangold.
    So Gagarr, what did you see?

    From my chart.....

    T-rich was in on 5 plays in the first half and 5 in the second.

    He was the lead blocker twice, both runs gained two yards.
    He caught 2 passes, one for 6 and one for 3.

    He missed his blocking assignment on the Wildcat play, was blown up by Ray "Im a murderer" Lewis which resulted in a tackle for a loss and missed his blocking assignment when he was in a split back set which resulted in a sack.

    On a side note, anyone watch Birk? LOL, his blocking assigment recovered two fumbles, he was blown up by Jenkins early and often. Best thing that happened for Matt was when he went down. Then he struggled with Pohua. He missed 4, possibly 5 (I scribbled one out cause I felt sorry for him) blitzes up the middle as he bounced between the G's helping them out instead of recognizing the blitz.

    I quit counting at 10 on how many plays he was left standing all alone, not engaged with anyone. And for those of you who don't know, thats a bad thing in a Zone Blocking Scheme.

    Sad to see one of the games greats hanging on like that.
    Sorry Mar, I planned on Tivoing it, but didn't set it. I did watch some of the 2nd half but didn't really pay attention to what the fullback was doing. Did you notice if the other FB, other than Richardson, on their roster played at all?

    Also, I'm NOT one for having Richardson back. I'm not one for even having a FB, as AD does better without Tahi.

    What I am for is getting a worthless guy off the roster and either bringing in a FB that can get the job done or going without the FB all together.

    Tahi hurts more than helps.
    Yes, he was in on several plays but I didn't chart him. Just T-rich and Hutch. Should've though. He mostly came in as a lead blocker but did get out in a couple of routes if memory serves. Nothing earth shattering though.

    As you say, I think the use of a FB on the roster these days is almost useless especially the way AD runs and we don't throw to them out of the backfield any. Mix in the whole ZB scheme and I think you just make a mess for the RB to pick his lane cause of the traffic.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #573
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Nothing says waste of a roster spot like Tahi. Oh wait, except for the extra kicker brought in and, ah, McKinnie, and ah, never-will-be QBs, and ah....fuck it. Forget I said anything.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #574
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Vikes are on local TV (Tucson AZ) so I get to Tivo the game and watch Tahi wiff on blocks in slow-mo.

    I'll consider it a successful game for Tahi if he make 1 good block out of every 3 attempts.
    [size=12pt]
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  5. #575
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Whoever Tivo'd this game, save your time. You don't need slo-mo replay to determine Tahi is horrible.

    I threw shit when they did a handoff to him on fourth down. He got SOOO lucky with that spot, because it looked like he lost yards.

  6. #576
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Whoever Tivo'd this game, save your time. You don't need slo-mo replay to determine Tahi is horrible.

    I threw shit when they did a handoff to him on fourth down. He got SOOO lucky with that spot, because it looked like he lost yards.
    Yeah, he lost yards and got a great spot. I hope the refs were just making up for the crappy spot they gave us on the previous play because the Fins got jobbed on that one.

  7. #577
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Whoever Tivo'd this game, save your time. You don't need slo-mo replay to determine Tahi is horrible.

    I threw shit when they did a handoff to him on fourth down. He got SOOO lucky with that spot, because it looked like he lost yards.
    At least Tahi didn't turn the ball over 4 times.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #578
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Prophet wrote:
    Nothing says waste of a roster spot like Tahi. Oh wait, except for the extra kicker brought in and, ah, McKinnie, and ah, never-will-be QBs, and ah....fuck it. Forget I said anything.

    LOL

  9. #579
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Whoever Tivo'd this game, save your time. You don't need slo-mo replay to determine Tahi is horrible.

    I threw shit when they did a handoff to him on fourth down. He got SOOO lucky with that spot, because it looked like he lost yards.
    Yeah, he lost yards and got a great spot. I hope the refs were just making up for the crappy spot they gave us on the previous play because the Fins got jobbed on that one.
    That was my take. The spot on the previous play was moved after the chains had been called for. What kind of magic rule was that?

    Tahi did not make it, but the play call should have been blamed. Up the gut on fourth down was not getting it done.

    Tahi was in on the missed fourth and goal, in which he went outside to do absolutely nothing. Was he supposed to be drawing defenders out of the tackle box, which the Vikings had caused to be stacked by their choice of formation, or was Peterson supposed to go outside on that play?

    In my opinion, a fourth and anything play should almost always have more than one option for the win, and the Vikings consistently fail that.

    Tahi was also in on the play that Favre got picked after throwing behind Harvin. One can curse Favre for the off target throw or Harvin for using poor technique, which are both valid points, but Tahi got blown up as the protector in the backfield, which forced Favre to not be able to step up toward the receiver. This likely caused an errant throw and a bobble by Harvin. Had Tahi been able to keep on his block and protect, the ball would likely have been on target, and Harvin's technique would likely have been moot.

  10. #580
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Tahi is horrible!

    Minniman wrote:
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Whoever Tivo'd this game, save your time. You don't need slo-mo replay to determine Tahi is horrible.

    I threw shit when they did a handoff to him on fourth down. He got SOOO lucky with that spot, because it looked like he lost yards.
    Yeah, he lost yards and got a great spot. I hope the refs were just making up for the crappy spot they gave us on the previous play because the Fins got jobbed on that one.
    That was my take. The spot on the previous play was moved after the chains had been called for. What kind of magic rule was that?

    Tahi did not make it, but the play call should have been blamed. Up the gut on fourth down was not getting it done.

    Tahi was in on the missed fourth and goal, in which he went outside to do absolutely nothing. Was he supposed to be drawing defenders out of the tackle box, which the Vikings had caused to be stacked by their choice of formation, or was Peterson supposed to go outside on that play?

    In my opinion, a fourth and anything play should almost always have more than one option for the win, and the Vikings consistently fail that.

    Tahi was also in on the play that Favre got picked after throwing behind Harvin. One can curse Favre for the off target throw or Harvin for using poor technique, which are both valid points, but Tahi got blown up as the protector in the backfield, which forced Favre to not be able to step up toward the receiver. This likely caused an errant throw and a bobble by Harvin. Had Tahi been able to keep on his block and protect, the ball would likely have been on target, and Harvin's technique would likely have been moot.
    From what I've seen, AD very seldom follows the FB, or any lead blocker for that matter.

    What he has been doing this year (actually set one up reall good yesterday following Herrera) is to watch what develops off of those blocks and then goes with or away from them based on that read (the two steps Theenimy was stressing).

    To sit here and say that Tahi didn't lead block to the gap called is kindof a reach my friend. Almost as much of a reach as trying to blame him for the Noodles accuracey issues...... :lol:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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