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  1. #21
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    ALL that TJack has to do this season is NOT make that many mistakes...that is what killed us last season with Brad Johnson...look at Vince Young...he had 14 TDs and 14 INTs...and STILL got ROY.
    So average play and not too many mistakes will work out just fine for us as well.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  2. #22
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    I think some people are just expecting TJ to go out there and play like a seasoned vet.
    This won't happen, but he has shown signs of growth and thats what I would expect.




    With the running game we should have, and if the O line can play solid ball and protect him. I think he will be just fine.
    Sure he's going to have ups and downs, but what QB doesn't?....




    I'm really excited to watch TJ play and watch him grow.
    Like Cajun said, if he can get the proper support from the other players on the O, by them doing their jobs, and if he can play with a cool head and minumize his mistakes, like INT's and Fumbles, I think he has a chance of having a great year for himself.
    And if he can bring it all back next season, who knows how far we can go with TJ.....




    All I can do right now is wish him the best and support him as a Vikings Fan......




    Here's to 2007


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  3. #23
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "thevikingfan" wrote:
    How about we just wait 9 days till the season starts and find out then?
    Absolutely.


    That is one of the great things about football.
    When the regular season starts, you can dump everything you saw in the preseason.
    Preseason is nothing more than a glorified practice period in which players are evaluated on an individual level.
    To treat is as anything different is foolish.
    Isn't that exactly what we are doing in this thread. The preseason is for evaluating talent, I think Tjack has a lot of it.

  4. #24
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    Now the truth is, he hasn't been good. Not saying he's looked terrible but not good.
    Keep this in mind. All Bollinger, Holcomb and even our receiver Bobby Wade have all thrown more touchdown passes then Tarvaris Jackson. Not too impressive.

    Off target on probaly most that I saw. 1-5 in Dallas not much more to say. The throw in the flat was definately wasnt a smart one. Couldn't get his man on zero coverage in Seattle. The ones that were good in Seattle were high (which got Wade laid out by Trufant) The underthrown one to Wade that set up Wades TD pass could have been six if thrown in stride. Just needs more accuracy. Throws thrown at the guys hip. Caught but still not accurate on most throws.


    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "StillPurple" wrote:
    What I have seen so far from T-Jacks:

    - Panic in the pocket
    - Very inaccurate throws
    - A deep ball that was totally underthrown, allowing the coverage to almost pick it off
    - A throw into the flat so late and inaccurate, it was almost picked off for 6

    I have very serious doubts that Tarvaris can make it in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have the attributes you need (calm in the pocket, accuracy, zippy, tight throws into the "window", reading the pressure and reacting, etc.). I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    You see only what you want to see.

    Panic in the pocket?
    Are you serious?
    Your arguments against TJack would have a little more merit if you at least tried to come up with something that resembled real life.
    You can talk about his accuracy or you can talk about his decision to throw to the flat yesterday (which was actually very accurate, just a bad decision because of where the defender was positioned).
    But as soon as you say something like "Panic in the Pocket" you completely lose all credibility because that is the one thing that TJack hasn't show us.
    Even in the Seattle game, where the defense came after him with everything he didn't panic.
    I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    Yeah and a guy who is athletic who isnt good at anticipaing receivers and isn't great at reading defenses. God that sounds familiar. Where have I seen that before in a Minnesota quarterback... *cough* Culpepper *cough*
    ;D (Im going to get some attacks for that one). haha The only problem is you dont have Randy Moss and Chris Carter to make him look good. You have a number 3 from the mediocre receiver corp of Tennessee, The prince of drops Williamson (king is T.O.), and a rookie from the same school and Williamson. So he cant get by with throwing meteors down feild knowing one of our guys is going to catch it.


    As far as panic in the pocket. I wouldnt say panic is the right word for it but Im definately going with Purple still. I would definately say not comfortable. Like he feels he needs to get rid of the ball now so he's uncomfortable and the first guy he sees open he throws. The only time he does look comfortable is when the play works. When the first guy he looks to is open and he can throw but when the guy isn't he does feel like he should have gotten rid of that ball a while ago and looks uncomfortable. He doesn't look to his one guy and waits a little to let it develop. He looks to his guy says not open next guy. And I would partly blame Childress for that. A quote from Jackson in the Star Tribune said that Childress really praises getting rid of the ball quick so he feels he needs to get rid of that ball near-to-now.



    Even so his pocket presense isnt great. Because a good quarterback when he feels that presure on the edge will take a step or two to the side or forward. Dan Marino did that great. Maybe the best. Tom Brady. Montana. Which avoids the pressure pretty well while I see Jackson not doing that. I see him running to the side or forward feeling that he needs to to avoid the end and thats the way to that and that end up hurting his already not too good chances of making a good and accurate throw. Ive seen that in Bollinger too to be fair but he' not our starter (or the backup even) so I wont put him on trial or anything. And that has to do with how comfortable you are in the pocket. But to me Jackson is still playing like he's a nervous rookie who wants to impress the coach.

    And if by the middle of the season Im seeing the same bad presense in the pocket, lack of consistancy of accuracy, and sub-par deciion making overall then Im saying "Lets go Brohm!!!" Yes he's made accurate throws and some good throw but not consistant enough. I've also seen guys like Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Rex Grossman, Cleo Lemon and Michael Vick (probably the best example to use) throw accurate throws and
    make good decision but not near consistantly enough and I wouldnt want any of them for my quarterback.



    "Some Coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 300 lbs. lineman. They give me plenty of wisdom"
    -Chuck Noll

    R.I.P. Sean Taylor

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    Some people just won't be happy until the "Randy Ratio" offense is back in play.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    The trouble is he was really "raw" when they drafted him. I think they were enamored by his great arm and good running ability. It's taking him a lot longer to develop then I think anyone planned. They hoped he would learn from Johnson but instead, Johnson was no good example at all to him.
    I think he's coming along but like others say he won't be a "world beater" this year but if he gets some protection from his offensive line this year he will be "passable."
    Instead of being a two year project, he's going to be a 3 or 4 year project but I think he's gonna be a great NFL player at some point.
    I just hope the fans and the press don't holler to loud for Holcomb when he makes a few mistakes. That will destroy any self-confidence he has.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  7. #27
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    "PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:
    Now the truth is, he hasn't been good. Not saying he's looked terrible but not good.
    Keep this in mind. All Bollinger, Holcomb and even our receiver Bobby Wade have all thrown more touchdown passes then Tarvaris Jackson. Not too impressive.

    Off target on probaly most that I saw. 1-5 in Dallas not much more to say. The throw in the flat was definately wasnt a smart one. Couldn't get his man on zero coverage in Seattle. The ones that were good in Seattle were high (which got Wade laid out by Trufant) The underthrown one to Wade that set up Wades TD pass could have been six if thrown in stride. Just needs more accuracy. Throws thrown at the guys hip. Caught but still not accurate on most throws.


    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "StillPurple" wrote:
    What I have seen so far from T-Jacks:

    - Panic in the pocket
    - Very inaccurate throws
    - A deep ball that was totally underthrown, allowing the coverage to almost pick it off
    - A throw into the flat so late and inaccurate, it was almost picked off for 6

    I have very serious doubts that Tarvaris can make it in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have the attributes you need (calm in the pocket, accuracy, zippy, tight throws into the "window", reading the pressure and reacting, etc.). I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    You see only what you want to see.

    Panic in the pocket?
    Are you serious?
    Your arguments against TJack would have a little more merit if you at least tried to come up with something that resembled real life.
    You can talk about his accuracy or you can talk about his decision to throw to the flat yesterday (which was actually very accurate, just a bad decision because of where the defender was positioned).
    But as soon as you say something like "Panic in the Pocket" you completely lose all credibility because that is the one thing that TJack hasn't show us.
    Even in the Seattle game, where the defense came after him with everything he didn't panic.
    I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    Yeah and a guy who is athletic who isnt good at anticipaing receivers and isn't great at reading defenses. God that sounds familiar. Where have I seen that before in a Minnesota quarterback... *cough* Culpepper *cough*
    ;D (Im going to get some attacks for that one). haha The only problem is you dont have Randy Moss and Chris Carter to make him look good. You have a number 3 from the mediocre receiver corp of Tennessee, The prince of drops Williamson (king is T.O.), and a rookie from the same school and Williamson. So he cant get by with throwing meteors down feild knowing one of our guys is going to catch it.


    As far as panic in the pocket. I wouldnt say panic is the right word for it but Im definately going with Purple still. I would definately say not comfortable. Like he feels he needs to get rid of the ball now so he's uncomfortable and the first guy he sees open he throws. The only time he does look comfortable is when the play works. When the first guy he looks to is open and he can throw but when the guy isn't he does feel like he should have gotten rid of that ball a while ago and looks uncomfortable. He doesn't look to his one guy and waits a little to let it develop. He looks to his guy says not open next guy. And I would partly blame Childress for that. A quote from Jackson in the Star Tribune said that Childress really praises getting rid of the ball quick so he feels he needs to get rid of that ball near-to-now.



    Even so his pocket presense isnt great. Because a good quarterback when he feels that presure on the edge will take a step or two to the side or forward. Dan Marino did that great. Maybe the best. Tom Brady. Montana. Which avoids the pressure pretty well while I see Jackson not doing that. I see him running to the side or forward feeling that he needs to to avoid the end and thats the way to that and that end up hurting his already not too good chances of making a good and accurate throw. Ive seen that in Bollinger too to be fair but he' not our starter (or the backup even) so I wont put him on trial or anything. And that has to do with how comfortable you are in the pocket. But to me Jackson is still playing like he's a nervous rookie who wants to impress the coach.

    And if by the middle of the season Im seeing the same bad presense in the pocket, lack of consistancy of accuracy, and sub-par deciion making overall then Im saying "Lets go Brohm!!!" Yes he's made accurate throws and some good throw but not consistant enough. I've also seen guys like Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Rex Grossman, Cleo Lemon and Michael Vick (probably the best example to use) throw accurate throws and
    make good decision but not near consistantly enough and I wouldnt want any of them for my quarterback.



    Who's Chris Carter???
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  8. #28
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "PurpleHornsOfDestruction" wrote:
    Now the truth is, he hasn't been good. Not saying he's looked terrible but not good.
    Keep this in mind. All Bollinger, Holcomb and even our receiver Bobby Wade have all thrown more touchdown passes then Tarvaris Jackson. Not too impressive.

    Off target on probaly most that I saw. 1-5 in Dallas not much more to say. The throw in the flat was definately wasnt a smart one. Couldn't get his man on zero coverage in Seattle. The ones that were good in Seattle were high (which got Wade laid out by Trufant) The underthrown one to Wade that set up Wades TD pass could have been six if thrown in stride. Just needs more accuracy. Throws thrown at the guys hip. Caught but still not accurate on most throws.


    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "StillPurple" wrote:
    What I have seen so far from T-Jacks:

    - Panic in the pocket
    - Very inaccurate throws
    - A deep ball that was totally underthrown, allowing the coverage to almost pick it off
    - A throw into the flat so late and inaccurate, it was almost picked off for 6

    I have very serious doubts that Tarvaris can make it in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have the attributes you need (calm in the pocket, accuracy, zippy, tight throws into the "window", reading the pressure and reacting, etc.). I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    You see only what you want to see.

    Panic in the pocket?
    Are you serious?
    Your arguments against TJack would have a little more merit if you at least tried to come up with something that resembled real life.
    You can talk about his accuracy or you can talk about his decision to throw to the flat yesterday (which was actually very accurate, just a bad decision because of where the defender was positioned).
    But as soon as you say something like "Panic in the Pocket" you completely lose all credibility because that is the one thing that TJack hasn't show us.
    Even in the Seattle game, where the defense came after him with everything he didn't panic.
    I see a guy who has a cannon arm, but no accuracy.
    Yeah and a guy who is athletic who isnt good at anticipaing receivers and isn't great at reading defenses. God that sounds familiar. Where have I seen that before in a Minnesota quarterback... *cough* Culpepper *cough*
    ;D (Im going to get some attacks for that one). haha The only problem is you dont have Randy Moss and Chris Carter to make him look good. You have a number 3 from the mediocre receiver corp of Tennessee, The prince of drops Williamson (king is T.O.), and a rookie from the same school and Williamson. So he cant get by with throwing meteors down feild knowing one of our guys is going to catch it.


    As far as panic in the pocket. I wouldnt say panic is the right word for it but Im definately going with Purple still. I would definately say not comfortable. Like he feels he needs to get rid of the ball now so he's uncomfortable and the first guy he sees open he throws. The only time he does look comfortable is when the play works. When the first guy he looks to is open and he can throw but when the guy isn't he does feel like he should have gotten rid of that ball a while ago and looks uncomfortable. He doesn't look to his one guy and waits a little to let it develop. He looks to his guy says not open next guy. And I would partly blame Childress for that. A quote from Jackson in the Star Tribune said that Childress really praises getting rid of the ball quick so he feels he needs to get rid of that ball near-to-now.



    Even so his pocket presense isnt great. Because a good quarterback when he feels that presure on the edge will take a step or two to the side or forward. Dan Marino did that great. Maybe the best. Tom Brady. Montana. Which avoids the pressure pretty well while I see Jackson not doing that. I see him running to the side or forward feeling that he needs to to avoid the end and thats the way to that and that end up hurting his already not too good chances of making a good and accurate throw. Ive seen that in Bollinger too to be fair but he' not our starter (or the backup even) so I wont put him on trial or anything. And that has to do with how comfortable you are in the pocket. But to me Jackson is still playing like he's a nervous rookie who wants to impress the coach.

    And if by the middle of the season Im seeing the same bad presense in the pocket, lack of consistancy of accuracy, and sub-par deciion making overall then Im saying "Lets go Brohm!!!" Yes he's made accurate throws and some good throw but not consistant enough. I've also seen guys like Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Rex Grossman, Cleo Lemon and Michael Vick (probably the best example to use) throw accurate throws and
    make good decision but not near consistantly enough and I wouldnt want any of them for my quarterback.



    Who's Chris Carter???
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  9. #29
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    The trouble is he was really "raw" when they drafted him. I think they were enamored by his great arm and good running ability. It's taking him a lot longer to develop then I think anyone planned. They hoped he would learn from Johnson but instead, Johnson was no good example at all to him.
    I think he's coming along but like others say he won't be a "world beater" this year but if he gets some protection from his offensive line this year he will be "passable."
    Instead of being a two year project, he's going to be a 3 or 4 year project but I think he's gonna be a great NFL player at some point.
    I just hope the fans and the press don't holler to loud for Holcomb when he makes a few mistakes. That will destroy any self-confidence he has.
    Actually it seems to me that they projected him to take 3 years when they drafted him. I think what happened is they didn't have good luck with Johnson and he came along a bit faster than they originally thought so they decided to go with him because he was a better alternative than any gap filling QB they could have brought in until he is ready. They certainly put alot of eggs in his basket, hopefully he doesn't drop them

  10. #30
    Garland Greene's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack good or bad?

    I have been debating about what to post in this thread. I questioned T-Jack when we first drafted him. I didn't think it made sense to give up what we did for him. But in the time after and as I found out more about him. He began to grow on me. Soon I became more and more of a fan. Last season I was happy that he at least got a chance to seewhat he was capable of. Even though he was shaky I belived that he would have great potential just given the chance. After camps and seeing him play in pre-season. But now I am not as sure he is the right QB for this team. I want to give T-jack as much of an opportunity to become a great QB, but how long do we we let him get a chance? can this team afford to have a such young QB on this team? If we had the skills players around him to make him better then by all means I say throw him out there. Culpepper had CC and Moss to help him and could make up for his in-expeirence. We however do not have that. We need either a experinced QB with so-so Skill players
    or a So-so QB with experienced Skill players but not a bunch of so-so inexperinced QB and Skill players.

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