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  1. #21
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    I am so ready for the 3-4. If the team continues with this pathetic version of the T2 I will have no desire to even watch .

  2. #22
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    They just had a stat about the Vikings defense over the past 8 games:

    72% completion percentage allowed
    20 TD's allowed
    0 INT's.
    128.6 Passer rating allowed.

    We need to draft for the secondary far more than the OL. What a mess.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    They just had a stat about the Vikings defense over the past 8 games:

    72% completion percentage allowed
    20 TD's allowed
    0 INT's.
    128.6 Passer rating allowed.

    We need to draft for the secondary far more than the OL. What a mess.
    I would love to draft secondary with our first pick, than the rest of the draft pick OL. I mean, the Saints aren't even blitzing and Ponder has NO time. We cannot hope to win with having a OL this bad? The #3 pick should be spent on a stud secondary pick, but OL is our biggest concern. I don't mind giving up points, but we need to be able to score them too.

  4. #24
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    I don't see why so many people think this is a wonderful idea. Switching to the 3-4 won't fix our complete lack of talent on the back end, and will shift the focus of our defense to our second-weakest position (linebackers).

    If you're going to do it, you'll have to trade Allen before his trade value plummets. He isn't fast enough to be a 3-4 OLB. His sacks come from leverage and technique - he's not a speed rusher. He'll be closer to Aaron Kampman than DeMarcus Ware. This means we'll have zero playmakers on defense and our secondary will still suck. We have to rebuild the defense from the ground up regardless of whether we stick with the 4-3 or not. It's not the Tampa 2 that's the problem here (and even if it were, there are other things you can run out of the 4-3).

    I just don't get it.
    Last edited by BBQ Platypus; 12-18-2011 at 02:45 PM.


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  5. #25
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    The problem is that even if we improve the secondary and the NT teams like the Bears, Packers, Lions, Pats, Saints etc are always going to carve up the T2 because they exploit the soft zone coverages. The only way we are going to be able to stop these teams is to upgrade the secondary with DB's that can play man defense and lock up the WR's and TE's so the QB doesn't have time to pick us apart.

    Even with an upgrade at NT, DT and LDE it is obvious that todays rule changes and offensive strategies allow teams to exploit the zone defenses and can get the ball out before any pass rush can get the kind of pressure the T2 relies on to be effective.

    So then why try to upgrade the talent only to still be vulnerable to the very offenses that the rest of the division is already running? It just doesn't make any sense unless you are happy with constantly coming up short against elite teams. Right now we have a lack of talent all the way across the defense and a total rebuild is necessary. If there was ever a time to change things over this is it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    The problem is that even if we improve the secondary and the NT teams like the Bears, Packers, Lions, Pats, Saints etc are always going to carve up the T2 because they exploit the soft zone coverages. The only way we are going to be able to stop these teams is to upgrade the secondary with DB's that can play man defense and lock up the WR's and TE's so the QB doesn't have time to pick us apart.

    Even with an upgrade at NT, DT and LDE it is obvious that todays rule changes and offensive strategies allow teams to exploit the zone defenses and can get the ball out before any pass rush can get the kind of pressure the T2 relies on to be effective.

    So then why try to upgrade the talent only to still be vulnerable to the very offenses that the rest of the division is already running? It just doesn't make any sense unless you are happy with constantly coming up short against elite teams. Right now we have a lack of talent all the way across the defense and a total rebuild is necessary. If there was ever a time to change things over this is it.
    And since when does playing the 4-3 inherently mean that you inherently don't play man-to-man? Teams used to be able to play man-to-man with 4 down linemen just fine. Is this somehow impossible now? Does the 3-4 mean you inherently don't play zone? If I heard the announcers correctly, the Chiefs played mostly zone today...and won.

    Frankly, we're already seeing some of the flaws of the 3-4 begin to be exposed. In the NFL before the 3-4, protect-the-pass-first-second-and-third craze began, I don't think Tim Tebow has the success that he's having. Teams are forgetting how to play the run. And when more teams realize that, things will begin to shift back in the other direction.

    Talent is the problem, not the scheme. You can change the scheme if you like - it doesn't really make any difference now since we've got almost nothing to work with. Trade JA for picks immediately if you do. We need more draft picks, not an out-of-position linebacker. It's not an AWFUL idea - it's just not a great one that I see an overpowering need for. A deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic type thing. Plus, we're likely to get worse switching to the 3-4 before we get better.
    Last edited by BBQ Platypus; 12-18-2011 at 03:31 PM.


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  7. #27
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    4-3 or 3-4?

    Neither is better or worse. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

    The coaching and players are huge factors. In my opinion, the Vikings are lacking in both areas.

    The Vikings should have signed Cameron Wake to a long term contract as left DE when he came out of the CFL. The Vikings lowballed, and that will haunt them. Wake had 14 sacks last season and has 6.5 this year. Wake left and Allen right could have meant monster pressure. Too bad the Dolphins locked Wake up for four years at league minimum.

    Robison is not bad, but QB's can hit any of many open receivers on any given play, so it is difficult for the sight-sided end to get a good rush without the ball coming out. The Vikings line coaching is not great, so we do not know how good he can be. Maybe he will not get better; maybe he will.

  8. #28
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    Having Frazier and Singletary run a passive defense just boggles my mind. It is almost like they didn't learn anything about pressure defenses when playing in the Bears' 46.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    They just had a stat about the Vikings defense over the past 8 games:

    72% completion percentage allowed
    20 TD's allowed
    0 INT's.
    128.6 Passer rating allowed.

    We need to draft for the secondary far more than the OL. What a mess.
    That's as much scheme as players. Can we draft some new coaches?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ Platypus View Post
    And since when does playing the 4-3 inherently mean that you inherently don't play man-to-man? Teams used to be able to play man-to-man with 4 down linemen just fine. Is this somehow impossible now? Does the 3-4 mean you inherently don't play zone? If I heard the announcers correctly, the Chiefs played mostly zone today...and won.

    Frankly, we're already seeing some of the flaws of the 3-4 begin to be exposed. In the NFL before the 3-4, protect-the-pass-first-second-and-third craze began, I don't think Tim Tebow has the success that he's having. Teams are forgetting how to play the run. And when more teams realize that, things will begin to shift back in the other direction.

    Talent is the problem, not the scheme. You can change the scheme if you like - it doesn't really make any difference now since we've got almost nothing to work with. Trade JA for picks immediately if you do. We need more draft picks, not an out-of-position linebacker. It's not an AWFUL idea - it's just not a great one that I see an overpowering need for. A deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic type thing. Plus, we're likely to get worse switching to the 3-4 before we get better.
    You probably can and to be honest if the team showed any competence in doing anything of that sort then I would be on board but until they start talking about doing a straight up 4-3 and not this zone based abomination then I am against it.

    Another thing the 3-4 gives is flexibility. It is much easier to disguise blitzes and coverages and you get faster, more flexible players on the field which can really help when the Packers spread you out.

    Whichever way they go if it involves a zone coverage and not a man coverage base they might just as well cash it in and join the CFL.

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