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  1. #51
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    You people who love defend Tice or Childress are putting far to much emphasis on the head coach for the state of the franchise.
    Look at what was said earlier about Jim Finks.
    And for someone to day that their are top, upper level, mid-level and bottom teams in the NFL is absolutely crazy. Calling the Vikings a mid-level team is crazy. You obviously weren't around when the Vikings were at the top of the league for several years and before that when Chicago absolutely ruled the NFL under George Halas. There is an ebb and flow.
    Excellent post my friend.
    What are you talking about? You know Childress is soley responsible.
    ;D
    This is an enjoyable thread. Many off season threads contain far less germane or resasonable debate.
    Only the future will give the answers.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #52
    gtinker63 is offline Rookie
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "MindFreak" wrote:
    "gtinker63" wrote:
    "MindFreak" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "MindFreak" wrote:
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=41637.msg711590#msg711590 date=1201100824]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=41637.msg711507#msg711507 date=1201086734]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=41637.msg711217#msg711217 date=1201034790]
    [quote author=MindFreak link=topic=41637.msg710884#msg710884 date=1201008993]
    [quote author=Prophet link=topic=41637.msg710528#msg710528 date=1200947720]
    I think the team is looking better at its foundation than it has since the SB runs.
    The Tice era was the bandaid era with no real long-term goals other than unintentionally running the team into the ground by having a mentally challenged HC that was not prepared at that point in time to run an NFL team.
    The team is well on its way to being a perennial contender (I don't feel like typing much right now).
    Yet in this mentally challanged, as you put it, coaches 2nd season he went 9-7 with really only Culpepper and Moss, where as the alleged coaching god we now have was only able to muster an 8-8 season in his 2nd season with the Rookie of the year, best ground game in the nfl, best run d in the nfl and more talent as a hole then the "mentally challanged coaches" team.
    Now tell me which coach is really the mentally challenged one?
    Rip Tice, and i rip baldy that's how this game works.

    State of the Franchise, just get us a gol 'darnit good receiver, get some good youth at Safety, and the progression of Jackson and we should be in good shape
    He also managed to blow important games consistently.
    Giving the Packers the NFCN by losing to the pathetic Cardinals.
    Making it to the playoffs on Denny's schemes and putting bandaids on the problems consistently.
    No long-term vision.
    Makes Vince Young look like Einstein.
    There were half a dozen HC openings when his contract wasn't renewed, if he's so wonderful why wasn't there a single team that gave him serious consideration?
    Because he's a silly guy.

    That being said, he now has some more experience under his belt and might get another shot some day.
    There is no way that you will ever convince anyone that has a hint of rational thought that the best thing to do for the team when Denny walked was to keep Tice as HC without opening up the search at a national level.
    He was supposed to be an interim coach and was given the reigns.
    This drove the team into mediocrity hell that it is still recovering from.
    No vision.
    No brain.
    Pathetic 'let's hold hands' leader.
    Some of those so called bandaids are the stars on todays team. He did have a long range plan & he & Rob Brzezinski were working on it. Managing the cap was part of that plan. Brzezinski spoke highly of it & Tice in an interview he had in 2006. I wish I could find that article again. I believe I posted it here in one of the threads.
    Just because a few player survived has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Tice had a long-term plan.
    Also, Brzezinski is an intelligent man and would not be harsh to a former employer via the media...only the brightest do that, people like Moss or T-Ho.
    The fact remains, Tice was not offered a HC position when a half dozen or so were open...because he sucked jiggly butt as an HC at that juncture of his career.
    Tice 9-7 in his second season with less talent

    Baldy 8-8 in his second season with more talent
    Tice > Baldy
    [/quote]

    That statement reminds me that nothing should be taken for granted.
    That statement is wrong on so many levels that it is almost scary.
    I like shiny red apples.

    I heard they are going to hire an orangutan to coach the Patriots next year.
    They finish the season at 8-8 and the orangutan is voted rookie coach of the year.
    [/quote]
    Don't rip Tice and i won't rip Childress.
    [/quote]

    Are you really suggesting that Tice was at that time a good coach?
    The book is stil open on Childress so comparing the two is wrong.
    If you think the Vikings team has more talent now then it did when Tice was a 2nd year coach that is fine.
    However, you need to look at the competition.
    You need to look at the age/experience of the team.
    Tice's 2003 team started with 6 wins and was playing as good as any team.
    They finished losing to the Cardinals and missing the playoffs, sound like this seasons Lions (not a good team).
    This years Vikings started terrible and then hit a good run in weeks 11-15 winning 5 straight and rising from the dead to just miss the playoffs.
    At the start of the year in 2003 and after the first 6 games everyone was talking about the Vikings having a possible run in the playoffs.
    At the start of this season and after the first 6 weeks people were talking about where in the 2008 draft the Vikings would be.


    Tice was the most inexperienced Head Coach this franchise has ever hed.
    He was terrible and should not have been the Head Coach.
    Childress is building a team.
    Has he been as good as he/we had hoped?
    Definately not but we cannot say he is going to remain a failure.

    I cannot believe there still are Viking fans that think Tice was a good coach.

    [/quote]
    Tice was able to beat the Packers
    Childress still hasn't
    Tice swept the Lions every year
    Childress has lost to the Lions
    Tice had a skeleton coaching staff because of pathetic cheap ownership and could go 9-7 in his second season
    Childress has the backing of an owner willing to spend money and has a full staff and could only go 8-8 with a team that had more talent as a hole then Tice's second season in 2003
    Tice was able to get us to the playoffs and beat GB at GBa
    Childress, was in the playoff hunt but choked at the end this season

    Just think if Tice could go 9-7 in his 2nd season as a HC, and then go to the playoffs in his 3rd season, and win a game, without a full coaching staff, and no resources from the ownership, think what he could've done with backing from a real owner, who would've given him the resources and a full staff. I defend him cause he wasn't given a fair shot, and while Childress has been given everything he needs, he hasn't produced yet. Yes i do hope he can produce, cause while i might not like him, the important thing is our team winning and getting to the playoffs, and then making a run at the SB, that's the ultimate goal of any team, and what any team fans want
    [/quote]

    Wheater Tice was given a fair shot or not is still besides the point.
    Tice should not have been a Head Coarch to begin with.
    He did not go through the ranks to be named a head coach.
    He was a budget coach.


    Did Tice have a better personality than Chiller does?
    Sure he was much more talkative and would tell people what they wanted to hear.
    That was one of his biggest weekness too.
    Players didn't respect him enough and did stupid things aka the Love Boat.
    Tice was also the one to eligally scalp super bowl tickets.
    At least our current front office has put in the codes of accountability or whatever.
    They will disipline players for stupid actions (I bet Smith will no longer be a Viking because of this).


    Lets just be happy that Childress and Co. are improving this team and move on with it.
    Everyone on here (except maybe pack93z) wants this team to be competitive and win a damn SB.
    Zigi, Childress, Brysinski, Studwell, etc. are the leaders right now and we need to move forward with them.

  3. #53
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    You people who love defend Tice or Childress are putting far to much emphasis on the head coach for the state of the franchise.
    Look at what was said earlier about Jim Finks.
    And for someone to day that their are top, upper level, mid-level and bottom teams in the NFL is absolutely crazy. Calling the Vikings a mid-level team is crazy. You obviously weren't around when the Vikings were at the top of the league for several years and before that when Chicago absolutely ruled the NFL under George Halas. There is an ebb and flow.
    I was there and I will stand by what I said.

    Are you telling me that you see no difference between the organizations of the Cowboys and the Lions? Give me a break. Also I feel that Chicago is a top tier team. I just didn't name them.

    I will consider the Vikings top tier when they win a SB or two. Until then they aren't and haven't been.

  4. #54
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    You people who love defend Tice or Childress are putting far to much emphasis on the head coach for the state of the franchise.
    Look at what was said earlier about Jim Finks.
    And for someone to day that their are top, upper level, mid-level and bottom teams in the NFL is absolutely crazy. Calling the Vikings a mid-level team is crazy. You obviously weren't around when the Vikings were at the top of the league for several years and before that when Chicago absolutely ruled the NFL under George Halas. There is an ebb and flow.
    I was there and I will stand by what I said.

    Are you telling me that you see no difference between the organizations of the Cowboys and the Lions? Give me a break. Also I feel that Chicago is a top tier team. I just didn't name them.

    I will consider the Vikings top tier when they win a SB or two. Until then they aren't and haven't been.
    Nope, don't see much difference. The Lions have won four championships, the Cowboys five.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  5. #55
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    Not more than a handful of member put their opinion out there.
    Thought there might be more.
    Thanks to those that replied.

  6. #56
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "snowinapril" wrote:
    Not more than a handful of member put their opinion out there.
    Thought there might be more.
    Thanks to those that replied.
    I honestly feel that comparing the franchise in the 21st century - in the age of salary cap and free agency - was not terribly relevant to the state of the franchise in the 20th century, for the most part.
    Players had little to no power to leave the team to which they were drafted prior to FA, which made a HUGE difference in the composition of teams.

    However, concerning the state of the franchise right now, I believe things are going in the right direction and think that the 2008 season will bring a playoff birth, if not a division title.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  7. #57
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "snowinapril" wrote:
    Not more than a handful of member put their opinion out there.
    Thought there might be more.
    Thanks to those that replied.
    I honestly feel that comparing the franchise in the 21st century - in the age of salary cap and free agency - was not terribly relevant to the state of the franchise in the 20th century, for the most part.
    Players had little to no power to leave the team to which they were drafted prior to FA, which made a HUGE difference in the composition of teams.

    However, concerning the state of the franchise right now, I believe things are going in the right direction and think that the 2008 season will bring a playoff birth, if not a division title.

    =Z=
    Like you said, "for the most part."


    The question initially posed in this thread was a very vague question in the first place in hopes to solicit many different answers.
    The state of the franchise is basically how one feels about it.


    I was particularly interested in the answers that contained some history to back their feelings.
    But I think that for most people the state of the franchise is mostly the here and now, not the past.
    But if one goes back and examines the franchise as a whole, it shows that we have a winning record, great players and many great seasons, one should feel good about that.

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