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  1. #21
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "MindFreak" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I think the team is looking better at its foundation than it has since the SB runs.
    The Tice era was the bandaid era with no real long-term goals other than unintentionally running the team into the ground by having a mentally challenged HC that was not prepared at that point in time to run an NFL team.
    The team is well on its way to being a perennial contender (I don't feel like typing much right now).
    Yet in this mentally challanged, as you put it, coaches 2nd season he went 9-7 with really only Culpepper and Moss, where as the alleged coaching god we now have was only able to muster an 8-8 season in his 2nd season with the Rookie of the year, best ground game in the nfl, best run d in the nfl and more talent as a hole then the "mentally challanged coaches" team.
    Now tell me which coach is really the mentally challenged one?
    Rip Tice, and i rip baldy that's how this game works.

    State of the Franchise, just get us a gol 'darnit good receiver, get some good youth at Safety, and the progression of Jackson and we should be in good shape
    He also managed to blow important games consistently.
    Giving the Packers the NFCN by losing to the pathetic Cardinals.
    Making it to the playoffs on Denny's schemes and putting bandaids on the problems consistently.
    No long-term vision.
    Makes Vince Young look like Einstein.
    There were half a dozen HC openings when his contract wasn't renewed, if he's so wonderful why wasn't there a single team that gave him serious consideration?
    Because he's a silly guy.

    That being said, he now has some more experience under his belt and might get another shot some day.
    There is no way that you will ever convince anyone that has a hint of rational thought that the best thing to do for the team when Denny walked was to keep Tice as HC without opening up the search at a national level.
    He was supposed to be an interim coach and was given the reigns.
    This drove the team into mediocrity hell that it is still recovering from.
    No vision.
    No brain.
    Pathetic 'let's hold hands' leader.
    Tice is blameless. He made the most of his opportunity and did the best he could.
    Red was no different than a corporate raider. Buy cheap and sell of the pieces.
    Thankfully Red is history and the franchise has an opportunity to recover.
    Recovery takes time. This team looks much better to me going into the third season than it did in the first.
    I understand frustration with regard to how close this team is to being competitive.
    I don't understand how anyone can lack hope or miss the promise of future improvement.
    It appears this team is structured to continue to improve each year for many to come.
    And unless the Wilfs have some deceptive plan to move the team, I believe they are committed to the future with a single goal.
    Profit............certainly. But also a championship.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #22
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "gtinker63" wrote:


    Through my research I thought it was interesting that the team has played most franchises fairly close except for the New York Jets.
    We are only 1-7 against them
    I found this interesting also.
    I was wondering if someone would point that out.
    The funny thing is that the J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets really S-U-C-K, suck, suck, suck.
    LOL!
    They owned us.
    Fluke?

  3. #23
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "MindFreak" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I think the team is looking better at its foundation than it has since the SB runs.
    The Tice era was the bandaid era with no real long-term goals other than unintentionally running the team into the ground by having a mentally challenged HC that was not prepared at that point in time to run an NFL team.
    The team is well on its way to being a perennial contender (I don't feel like typing much right now).
    Yet in this mentally challanged, as you put it, coaches 2nd season he went 9-7 with really only Culpepper and Moss, where as the alleged coaching god we now have was only able to muster an 8-8 season in his 2nd season with the Rookie of the year, best ground game in the nfl, best run d in the nfl and more talent as a hole then the "mentally challanged coaches" team.
    Now tell me which coach is really the mentally challenged one?
    Rip Tice, and i rip baldy that's how this game works.

    State of the Franchise, just get us a gol 'darnit good receiver, get some good youth at Safety, and the progression of Jackson and we should be in good shape
    He also managed to blow important games consistently.
    Giving the Packers the NFCN by losing to the pathetic Cardinals.
    Making it to the playoffs on Denny's schemes and putting bandaids on the problems consistently.
    No long-term vision.
    Makes Vince Young look like Einstein.
    There were half a dozen HC openings when his contract wasn't renewed, if he's so wonderful why wasn't there a single team that gave him serious consideration?
    Because he's a silly guy.

    That being said, he now has some more experience under his belt and might get another shot some day.
    There is no way that you will ever convince anyone that has a hint of rational thought that the best thing to do for the team when Denny walked was to keep Tice as HC without opening up the search at a national level.
    He was supposed to be an interim coach and was given the reigns.
    This drove the team into mediocrity hell that it is still recovering from.
    No vision.
    No brain.
    Pathetic 'let's hold hands' leader.
    Tice is blameless. He made the most of his opportunity and did the best he could.
    Red was no different than a corporate raider. Buy cheap and sell of the pieces.
    Thankfully Red is history and the franchise has an opportunity to recover.
    Recovery takes time. This team looks much better to me going into the third season than it did in the first.
    I understand frustration with regard to how close this team is to being competitive.
    I don't understand how anyone can lack hope or miss the promise of future improvement.
    It appears this team is structured to continue to improve each year for many to come.
    And unless the Wilfs have some deceptive plan to move the team, I believe they are committed to the future with a single goal.
    Profit............certainly. But also a championship.
    I agree with that perspective.
    Redneck was a tightwad and screwed the franchise for a profit.
    If they hired me as HC tomorrow I would take the job and I'm much less qualified than Tice was and I would give it my best shot.
    Tice (insert any name) would have had a tough go at it under the reigns of Redneck McCombs.
    I just am not a believer that Tice was in any way a good HC.
    It's not his fault, he was given the reigns too early in his coaching career.
    After watching him coach though, I highly doubt he will ever be an effective HC in the NFL.
    Wilf is an order of magnitude a better owner that is willing to throw money at the team, yes, it's for a profit...win/win.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #24
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    A lot of good points have been made. I won't repeat a lot of them. But I kinda laugh at the people who point to Tice having a good record. Well, if you are satisfied with a 9-7 record (his best) then he was a good coach. I'm not satisfied with that, personally.

    1.) How you think it has stacked up in the past over the entire length?
    I think this franchise lost it's way some time ago, just after the Bud Grand/Jim Finks era, when it tried the "produce a winner right now" idea. I have never seen that work but I certainly can understand the fans desire to want a winner "right now." People have no patience with anything anymore, especially their favorite sports teams. Trying to produce winners through FA has never been a solid way to build. Yes, it certainly can help in some key areas, but far to many times it doesn't. You don't hear the name Jim Finks much anymore, but he was a solid president of the Vikings who brought a lot of stability to the franchise. Now, there isn't much stability anymore. I think the Packers are going to realize the wisdom of this with their young team and I hope the Vikings will realize it under Zygi. I think they are.

    2.) How you think it has stacked in the last few years?
    I think this question is answered above. I see far to many fans clamoring to pick up this or that FA and suddenly they think we will have a Super Bowl winner. I understand their wants and especially the concerns with some of our players now at their prime and will be falling off in production in a year or two. But gosh, I always believed that you looked at that in your draft choices.

    3.) How it stacks up going forward with what we got now?
    I think the Vikings are on the right track now with Zygi, and Brad. Despite the panic of "the sky is falling and we need a winner RIGHT NOW mentality, the Vikes are going to move slow and cautious. I like this tact. I thinbk we can be helped in FA, no doubt, but I certainly wouldn't go out and mortgage the farm. Build from within has always worked best. I think the Vikings are going to have that dynesty in two to three years.
    I've been waiting 46 years. How much patience do I need? LOL !


    Finks came in '64. Were you still there at that time?
    I often felt he was the true key to the Vikings success. He hired Bud and brought in Larsen,Eller, and Page to play with Marshall who was already there.He also brought Tarkenton back from the Giants in '72.
    In '74 he left and went to the Bears. The Bears team improved to a playoff team after Finks got there.
    He had a brief stint with the Cubbies before returning to football with the Saints, bringing them their first winning season ever.

    Finks was with the Vikings from 1964 to 1974. The franchise has never been the same since.

    This build through the draft and don't overspend on free agency mode of operations the new owners have give me hope for a return to respectability and greatness. That sort ofthing takes long term vision and tells me they are in it for the long run.

    I want to win today. But I will want to win tomarrow too.

    So I like the plan.

    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  5. #25
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    A lot of good points have been made. I won't repeat a lot of them. But I kinda laugh at the people who point to Tice having a good record. Well, if you are satisfied with a 9-7 record (his best) then he was a good coach. I'm not satisfied with that, personally.

    1.) How you think it has stacked up in the past over the entire length?
    I think this franchise lost it's way some time ago, just after the Bud Grand/Jim Finks era, when it tried the "produce a winner right now" idea. I have never seen that work but I certainly can understand the fans desire to want a winner "right now." People have no patience with anything anymore, especially their favorite sports teams. Trying to produce winners through FA has never been a solid way to build. Yes, it certainly can help in some key areas, but far to many times it doesn't. You don't hear the name Jim Finks much anymore, but he was a solid president of the Vikings who brought a lot of stability to the franchise. Now, there isn't much stability anymore. I think the Packers are going to realize the wisdom of this with their young team and I hope the Vikings will realize it under Zygi. I think they are.

    2.) How you think it has stacked in the last few years?
    I think this question is answered above. I see far to many fans clamoring to pick up this or that FA and suddenly they think we will have a Super Bowl winner. I understand their wants and especially the concerns with some of our players now at their prime and will be falling off in production in a year or two. But gosh, I always believed that you looked at that in your draft choices.

    3.) How it stacks up going forward with what we got now?
    I think the Vikings are on the right track now with Zygi, and Brad. Despite the panic of "the sky is falling and we need a winner RIGHT NOW mentality, the Vikes are going to move slow and cautious. I like this tact. I thinbk we can be helped in FA, no doubt, but I certainly wouldn't go out and mortgage the farm. Build from within has always worked best. I think the Vikings are going to have that dynesty in two to three years.
    I've been waiting 46 years. How much patience do I need? LOL !


    Finks came in '64. Were you still there at that time?
    I often felt he was the true key to the Vikings success. He hired Bud and brought in Larsen,Eller, and Page to play with Marshall who was already there.He also brought Tarkenton back from the Giants in '72.
    In '74 he left and went to the Bears. The Bears team improved to a playoff team after Finks got there.
    He had a brief stint with the Cubbies before returning to football with the Saints, bringing them their first winning season ever.

    Finks was with the Vikings from 1964 to 1974. The franchise has never been the same since.

    This build through the draft and don't overspend on free agency mode of operations the new owners have give me hope for a return to respectability and greatness. That sort ofthing takes long term vision and tells me they are in it for the long run.

    I want to win today. But I will want to win tomarrow too.

    So I like the plan.

    I left in '63 but I knew he was coming in. He was a winner wherever he went.
    Concerning the "patience" remark. I was speaking in general terms but in particular of the Vikings since Red left this team in such disarray.
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  6. #26
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    A lot of good points have been made. I won't repeat a lot of them. But I kinda laugh at the people who point to Tice having a good record. Well, if you are satisfied with a 9-7 record (his best) then he was a good coach. I'm not satisfied with that, personally.

    1.) How you think it has stacked up in the past over the entire length?
    I think this franchise lost it's way some time ago, just after the Bud Grand/Jim Finks era, when it tried the "produce a winner right now" idea. I have never seen that work but I certainly can understand the fans desire to want a winner "right now." People have no patience with anything anymore, especially their favorite sports teams. Trying to produce winners through FA has never been a solid way to build. Yes, it certainly can help in some key areas, but far to many times it doesn't. You don't hear the name Jim Finks much anymore, but he was a solid president of the Vikings who brought a lot of stability to the franchise. Now, there isn't much stability anymore. I think the Packers are going to realize the wisdom of this with their young team and I hope the Vikings will realize it under Zygi. I think they are.

    2.) How you think it has stacked in the last few years?
    I think this question is answered above. I see far to many fans clamoring to pick up this or that FA and suddenly they think we will have a Super Bowl winner. I understand their wants and especially the concerns with some of our players now at their prime and will be falling off in production in a year or two. But gosh, I always believed that you looked at that in your draft choices.

    3.) How it stacks up going forward with what we got now?
    I think the Vikings are on the right track now with Zygi, and Brad. Despite the panic of "the sky is falling and we need a winner RIGHT NOW mentality, the Vikes are going to move slow and cautious. I like this tact. I thinbk we can be helped in FA, no doubt, but I certainly wouldn't go out and mortgage the farm. Build from within has always worked best. I think the Vikings are going to have that dynesty in two to three years.
    I've been waiting 46 years. How much patience do I need? LOL !


    Finks came in '64. Were you still there at that time?
    I often felt he was the true key to the Vikings success. He hired Bud and brought in Larsen,Eller, and Page to play with Marshall who was already there.He also brought Tarkenton back from the Giants in '72.
    In '74 he left and went to the Bears. The Bears team improved to a playoff team after Finks got there.
    He had a brief stint with the Cubbies before returning to football with the Saints, bringing them their first winning season ever.

    Finks was with the Vikings from 1964 to 1974. The franchise has never been the same since.

    This build through the draft and don't overspend on free agency mode of operations the new owners have give me hope for a return to respectability and greatness. That sort ofthing takes long term vision and tells me they are in it for the long run.

    I want to win today. But I will want to win tomarrow too.

    So I like the plan.

    I left in '63 but I knew he was coming in. He was a winner wherever he went.
    Concerning the "patience" remark. I was speaking in general terms but in particular of the Vikings since Red left this team in such disarray.
    Cojo and Jargonmcfargo thanks for the insight on some history of the Vikings former personnel.
    I enjoyed both posts.

  7. #27
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "snowinapril" wrote:
    "gtinker63" wrote:


    Through my research I thought it was interesting that the team has played most franchises fairly close except for the New York Jets.
    We are only 1-7 against them
    I found this interesting also.
    I was wondering if someone would point that out.
    The funny thing is that the J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets really S-U-C-K, suck, suck, suck.
    LOL!
    They owned us.
    Fluke?
    One would have to look at what kind of team they had when we played them. Did we happen to play them in their 9 decent seasons?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "MindFreak" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    I think the team is looking better at its foundation than it has since the SB runs.
    The Tice era was the bandaid era with no real long-term goals other than unintentionally running the team into the ground by having a mentally challenged HC that was not prepared at that point in time to run an NFL team.
    The team is well on its way to being a perennial contender (I don't feel like typing much right now).
    Yet in this mentally challanged, as you put it, coaches 2nd season he went 9-7 with really only Culpepper and Moss, where as the alleged coaching god we now have was only able to muster an 8-8 season in his 2nd season with the Rookie of the year, best ground game in the nfl, best run d in the nfl and more talent as a hole then the "mentally challanged coaches" team.
    Now tell me which coach is really the mentally challenged one?
    Rip Tice, and i rip baldy that's how this game works.

    State of the Franchise, just get us a damn good receiver, get some good youth at Safety, and the progression of Jackson and we should be in good shape
    He also managed to blow important games consistently.
    Giving the Packers the NFCN by losing to the pathetic Cardinals.
    Making it to the playoffs on Denny's schemes and putting bandaids on the problems consistently.
    No long-term vision.
    Makes Vince Young look like Einstein.
    There were half a dozen HC openings when his contract wasn't renewed, if he's so wonderful why wasn't there a single team that gave him serious consideration?
    Because he's a moron.

    That being said, he now has some more experience under his belt and might get another shot some day.
    There is no way that you will ever convince anyone that has a hint of rational thought that the best thing to do for the team when Denny walked was to keep Tice as HC without opening up the search at a national level.
    He was supposed to be an interim coach and was given the reigns.
    This drove the team into mediocrity hell that it is still recovering from.
    No vision.
    No brain.
    Pathetic 'let's hold hands' leader.
    Some of those so called bandaids are the stars on todays team. He did have a long range plan & he & Rob Brzezinski were working on it. Managing the cap was part of that plan. Brzezinski spoke highly of it & Tice in an interview he had in 2006. I wish I could find that article again. I believe I posted it here in one of the threads.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #29
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "singersp" wrote:
    "snowinapril" wrote:
    "gtinker63" wrote:


    Through my research I thought it was interesting that the team has played most franchises fairly close except for the New York Jets.
    We are only 1-7 against them
    I found this interesting also.
    I was wondering if someone would point that out.
    The funny thing is that the J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets really S-U-C-K, suck, suck, suck.
    LOL!
    They owned us.
    Fluke?
    One would have to look at what kind of team they had when we played them. Did we happen to play them in their 9 decent seasons?
    You tell me. Here are the facts.

    Minnesota Vikings Vs. New York Jets
    Regular Season/Postseason Results

    Season Date Result
    2006 December 17, 2006 New York Jets 26, Minnesota Vikings 13
    2002 October 20, 2002 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 7
    1997 November 23, 1997 New York Jets 23, Minnesota Vikings 21
    1994 November 20, 1994 New York Jets 31, Minnesota Vikings 21
    1982 December 26, 1982 New York Jets 42, Minnesota Vikings 14
    1979 October 15, 1979 New York Jets 14, Minnesota Vikings 7
    1975 October 12, 1975 Minnesota Vikings 29, New York Jets 21
    1970 November 29, 1970 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 10

    New York Jets lead series 7-1-0
    Points Scored: New York Jets 197, Minnesota Vikings 122

    Btw. the second worst is the Raiders, 4-9, not too shabby either.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  10. #30
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: The State of the Franchise!

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "snowinapril" wrote:
    "gtinker63" wrote:


    Through my research I thought it was interesting that the team has played most franchises fairly close except for the New York Jets.
    We are only 1-7 against them
    I found this interesting also.
    I was wondering if someone would point that out.
    The funny thing is that the J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets really S-U-C-K, suck, suck, suck.
    LOL!
    They owned us.
    Fluke?
    One would have to look at what kind of team they had when we played them. Did we happen to play them in their 9 decent seasons?
    You tell me. Here are the facts.

    Minnesota Vikings Vs. New York Jets
    Regular Season/Postseason Results

    Season Date Result
    2006 December 17, 2006 New York Jets 26, Minnesota Vikings 13
    2002 October 20, 2002 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 7
    1997 November 23, 1997 New York Jets 23, Minnesota Vikings 21
    1994 November 20, 1994 New York Jets 31, Minnesota Vikings 21
    1982 December 26, 1982 New York Jets 42, Minnesota Vikings 14
    1979 October 15, 1979 New York Jets 14, Minnesota Vikings 7
    1975 October 12, 1975 Minnesota Vikings 29, New York Jets 21
    1970 November 29, 1970 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 10

    New York Jets lead series 7-1-0
    Points Scored: New York Jets 197, Minnesota Vikings 122

    Btw. the second worst is the Raiders, 4-9, not too shabby either.

    Jets/Vikings records those years;

    10-6/6-10
    2006
    December 17, 2006 New York Jets 26, Minnesota Vikings 13
    9-7/6-10

    2002
    October 20, 2002 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 7
    9-7/9-7

    1997
    November 23, 1997 New York Jets 23, Minnesota Vikings 21
    6-10/10-6
    1994
    November 20, 1994 New York Jets 31, Minnesota Vikings 21
    6-3/5-4

    1982
    December 26, 1982 New York Jets 42, Minnesota Vikings 14
    8-8/7-9

    1979
    October 15, 1979 New York Jets 14, Minnesota Vikings 7
    3-11/12/2
    1975
    October 12, 1975 Minnesota Vikings 29, New York Jets 21
    4-10/12/2
    1970
    November 29, 1970 New York Jets 20, Minnesota Vikings 10

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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