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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    How was he not in charge? It was his draft board. His scouting department. Chlly had a say on what the team needed but it was up to him to find the player. Chilly didn't say.... hey lets take this guy over this guy. That was speilman's call. When a position was drafted... he decided who that position was... Think about it. Chilly didn't want Favre... yet Favre was on the team. When it came to player decisions... it was Speilman. The trade for Rosencopter etc.
    How do you know that? Do you know exactly who got to pick with TOA? I would assume Chilly did get to pick his guy, Spielman set the board and then Chilly got to pick from several guys on that board when the pick came up. Do you really know how they picked or are you just dumping on Spielman because you don't like him? If you do know exactly how they picked then why don't you explain the process so I can hate on Spielman as well.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    How do you know that? Do you know exactly who got to pick with TOA? I would assume Chilly did get to pick his guy, Spielman set the board and then Chilly got to pick from several guys on that board when the pick came up. Do you really know how they picked or are you just dumping on Spielman because you don't like him? If you do know exactly how they picked then why don't you explain the process so I can hate on Spielman as well.
    It doesn't work that way. That's how I know. A coach doesn't come into the draft and in the 3rd round decide that some Cb from a small school would be better off than some guy from USC. Nor does he do the opposite. Speilman set the table and ranks the prospects based on his "amazing" process. Do you really think Chilly could come in and say... i rather take the 7th rank guy over the 9th? No! Could he say... at round 3 I rather draft a TE than a Lb? Sure... but you can't tell me he was out there moving the board around. That was/is speilman's baby. If the TOA decided they needed a CB... it was based on speilman's math which cb was selected... and he missed constantly at CB and a lot of other positions.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    When we start winning, I predict you will change your tune.

    Very few teams have pro-bowlers starting at every position, with 2-3 behind them just waiting to show how great they are.

    If we would have drafted the same players that New England did over the last 5 years, I don't envision us winning significantly more than we did under our last to coaching regimes. If we had Tom Brady in purple, that is a whole different story, and even shitty coaches would have had a lot more success.
    Actually I won't. I'm the same guy that was warning about how bad this team was after Peterson's great season when everyone was predicting 12 wins. The fact remains...we are an awful team. That just got a hell of a lot worst. Not every team has a shit load of pro bowlers but we are average to bad at 3-4 positions on the OL. I never fall in love with potential so add 2-4 on the DL. 2 on the LB level, 2/ 4 at the DB level. And we have 1 true WR. Plenty of potential and splash but low production. Our Qb situation is the laughing stock of the league. We simply are not a good team and haven't been one for a long time. 1 good Qb year int he past 7 years is awful.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    It doesn't work that way. That's how I know. A coach doesn't come into the draft and in the 3rd round decide that some Cb from a small school would be better off than some guy from USC. Nor does he do the opposite. Speilman set the table and ranks the prospects based on his "amazing" process. Do you really think Chilly could come in and say... i rather take the 7th rank guy over the 9th? No! Could he say... at round 3 I rather draft a TE than a Lb? Sure... but you can't tell me he was out there moving the board around. That was/is speilman's baby. If the TOA decided they needed a CB... it was based on speilman's math which cb was selected... and he missed constantly at CB and a lot of other positions.
    I didn't say he moved the board around, I said how do you know Spielman got to make the pick. And yes, there are coaches who say I want this guy if he is right around the place to pick. So I still think you can't blame Spielman until he became GM. Otherwise you are saying he was the GM and the TOA was just a front.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I didn't say he moved the board around, I said how do you know Spielman got to make the pick. And yes, there are coaches who say I want this guy if he is right around the place to pick. So I still think you can't blame Spielman until he became GM. Otherwise you are saying he was the GM and the TOA was just a front.
    The TOA was for decisions related to the team. Was speilman calling plays on Sunday? No... so clearly each member had their expertise. I find it hard to believe that a guy who had been interviewed multiple times for the complexity of his draft board would give up all those hours to allow a coach to simply pick random players on draft day. Come on, this is a no brainer. They worked together but final say on the draft belonged to the guy who's job it was to scout and draft players. My proof is... Chilly didn't want randy... Randy was on the team. Chilly didn't want Farve, Farve was on the team. Chilly didn't want Rosencopter.... The chopper was on the team. When it came to FA signings and the draft....they worked together but it was Speilman's baby.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    How does this relate to Spielman's draft track record ?
    It doesn't. It was in direct response to somebody else's quote about other teams draft record.

    How does your post relate to Spielman's draft record? I clearly posted about the subject a post before and chose to respond to somebody else's as well.

    Don't know what you are being an ass for ... but good for you ... the Internet applauds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    That begs the question: are the Patriots and Seahawks drafting better, or are the players just coached better? It is likely both, but both teams got lucky with Brady and Wilson sliding out of day one of the draft.
    This is a fantastic point. I think that the Seahawks and Patriots are VERY good examples of getting everything out of players.

    I would love to see our staffs be able to do this more often. I think it might be possible under the new regime.

  8. #28
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    It doesn't. It was in direct response to somebody else's quote about other teams draft record.

    How does your post relate to Spielman's draft record? I clearly posted about the subject a post before and chose to respond to somebody else's as well.

    Don't know what you are being an ass for ... but good for you ... the Internet applauds.
    I'm happy you are offended. You have far more than your fair share of asshat posts on this board.
    I simply asked a question to clarify what you were thinking.
    I apologize if you took it personal, but despite believing you are a mental midget, I restrained myself from stating so.
    Don't you feel restraint is superior to confrontation ?
    And no, this post doesn't relate to Spielman's draft record either; just like yours.

  9. #29
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    This is a fantastic point. I think that the Seahawks and Patriots are VERY good examples of getting everything out of players.

    I would love to see our staffs be able to do this more often. I think it might be possible under the new regime.
    That is certainly the theme with Zimmer; someone who gets the most out of his players. I expect to see it, and clearly expect to see a positive result in the next 3 years, and quite possibly this year, providing the defense comes together.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    The TOA was for decisions related to the team. Was speilman calling plays on Sunday? No... so clearly each member had their expertise. I find it hard to believe that a guy who had been interviewed multiple times for the complexity of his draft board would give up all those hours to allow a coach to simply pick random players on draft day. Come on, this is a no brainer. They worked together but final say on the draft belonged to the guy who's job it was to scout and draft players. My proof is... Chilly didn't want randy... Randy was on the team. Chilly didn't want Farve, Farve was on the team. Chilly didn't want Rosencopter.... The chopper was on the team. When it came to FA signings and the draft....they worked together but it was Speilman's baby.
    I am also sure that if Chilly said he really wanted a player sitting on the draft board that Spielman would have drafted that player for him. So to put the drafts all on him is not realistic given there were two other people with input. I will give you an analogy maybe not a good one but one nonetheless, I am driving with my family and I make the final decision where eat. I want to eat at KFC but my wife and kids want to eat at Wendy's; where do you think we will eat even though it is my decision. He had pressure from the other two to pick their guy in the draft. How many GMs are going to pick guys that the coach didn't want, especially one with as much power as Chilly had at the time? Spielman had a lot of pressure to pick guys he didn't want to pick, that is my opinion of course and we seem to have a difference of opinion.

    My reasoning for thinking that he didn't get to pick his own players (or felt the need to pick someone else's player) is by looking at the stark contrast in his drafts before and after his promotion. He had average to above average drafts before his promotion then after his promotion he had two really good drafts IMO. What changed the past two drafts?

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

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