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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Do you see any mention of the Rams-Redskins trade in your top 10 pick trade ups?

    I don't & you simply blew it off when I mentioned it.

    Why? Because if you had listed it as a factor, the difference between our deal & the Rams deal looks a lot different than the difference between our deal & the deals that followed & makes our deal look far less great in comparison.

    In short, it didn't support your stance, so you simply omitted that top 10 trade.
    I was far from blowing it off. In fact I gave you what was given up and then discussed that going after a "Franchise QB" and going after a "RB" were two different mindsets and the rest of the moves that were made in the top ten were made to land the same type of role players and not Franchise QB's.

    Ohhh, wait, maybe you missed that cause it didn't fit into your argument. LOL.
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  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    It didn't. It got past you.

    Throwing that cloud out there makes the teams that wanted Kalil, Blackmon or Claiborne more apt to move up ahead of us because they didn't know which one of the 3 we were taking & there would only be two of them left after we picked.

    Whether we took one of those 3 or another team moved up to take one of the 3 didn't matter one iota to the Browns because they were interested in Richardson & he'd still be there at #4.

    In no way did the threat of us or another team moving up to take Kalil, Blackmon or Claiborne force the Browns into making a trade? They didn't want Kalil, Blackmon or Claiborne. Even if they did, 2 of the 3 would still be there at #4.

    What part of that don't you get?
    LOL, What did I miss? You are still focused on one trade, I'm talking second and third order of effects not just the first. My guess, he had his board set about the following way:

    1A Kalil OT
    1B Claiborne CB
    1C Barron S
    1D Blackmon WR
    1E Reiff OT
    1F Smith S

    I think he would have been happy with extra picks and 1A and 1B and if he didn't get either of those he would have taken Barron and moved back up for Reiff but wouldn't have been quite as happy after missing out on one of the top flight players in this draft.

    If he couldn't get any business drummed up, he probably would have taken Kalil, and then tried to move up to get his other priority (S) late in the first round. To do that he probably knew about were he needed to get and what it would have taken to get there.

    So how do you drum up that business......You work multiple fronts in order to draw interest from different teams interested in different players....

    The Tannehill stuff wasn't working........

    So your next best bet is Cleveland.......You have a pretty good hunch that they want to get the RB (4 Rushing TD's in 2010) and you have a pretty good idea that the Bucs also have an interest (Blount cannot pass block and makes their offense 1 dimensional/predictable) in Richardson. Heck they showed so much interest in him Blount came out and said he would be good with him on the team.

    OK, now you have Cleveland nervous and they come and tell you that they will give you multiple extra picks so your sure that one is in the bag. All the while keeping the Bucs informed on what Cleveland is willing to give.

    So you now that you have Cleveland in the bag and Tampa knowing they are going to miss out on their number 1 guy, you start working a second trade with them with the intent of trying to convince them to move up one spot so you don't take their second option (Claiborne). To do that you need to make them think you ARE in fact considering taking him.

    Here is were you can start hacking on him if you want because I think he completely missed the Dallas interest in Claiborne. Or maybe he did hear from Dallas, but Dallas wasn't willing to give up enough to move to 4 cause that would have put you down to 14 and you would have missed out on all 3 of your top candidates (Kalil, Claiborne, Barron) and you would have had to take Reiff and Harris.

    His mindset was, OK, I've got Kalil, and my extra picks and have enough to get back into the first to get Smith.

    Again, how did you miss that? Probably not a chess player I think......
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  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post

    ....you have a pretty good idea that the Bucs also have an interest (Blount cannot pass block and makes their offense 1 dimensional/predictable) in Richardson.
    If the Bucs were interested in Richardson because Blount cannot pass block and makes their offense 1 dimensional/predictable, why weren't we interested in him as well?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    It will be interesting to watch.

    Personally I don't see the ball control offense and the T2 defense with bad secondaries as any type of formula for success but maybe they will prove that it is. I still feel if you are going ground control, low scoring, clock management style on offense you need an elite defense to limit the points you are giving up. Especially when the teams in your division are pretty much scoring at will against you.
    +1

    People don't seem to get that.

    Unless our defense can stop opponents from scoring pretty much at will, a long drawn out scoring drive, outside of giving the defense more rest, doesn't do much for our team, unless our offense is better than theirs. Especially if our team is trying to play catch up.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I think most people caught on to the fact that we were going after Kalil. The rest was part of the draft/trade smokescreens.

    If we would have traded down further and missed out on Kalil and had to take Blackmon or Claiborne, I think most people would have agree that it would have been a bad move. In fact, you probably would have been leading the charge...
    Not necessarily. It would depend on what we would have gotten in trade & who we took. It would have had to been better than a 4th, 5th & 7th.

    Outside of Kalil, I felt our biggest need is a big-time WR. If we would have got Blackmon, Reiff & a solid CB with the first three picks, with additional picks too boot, I'd have been OK with that.

    I wasn't thrilled that we took a two DB's before taking a WR & when we finally took one in the 4th, it was a 5'10" WR.
    Last edited by singersp; 05-12-2012 at 09:40 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Not necessarily. It would depend on what we would have gotten in trade & who we took. It would have had to been better than a 4th, 5th & 7th.

    Outside of Kalil, I felt our biggest need is a big-time WR. If we would have got Blackmon, Reiff & a solid CB with the first three picks, with additional picks too boot, I'd have been OK with that.

    I wasn't thrilled that we took a two DB's before taking a WR & when we finally took one in the 4th, it was a 5'10" WR.
    The popular theory with fans around here as of late is if you have an elite LT then you can have any WR off the street and the offense will score points. I disagree with that take but I am willing to let it play itself out and give them the opportunity to prove me wrong.

    One way or the other if you are picking at the 3 spot you should and you better look like you know what you are doing with that pick because with the sheer number of choices you have the odds are in your favor. Of course when the media begin to pick for you and the fans start to lobby for a given player it can put you in a spot where you get put into a box with the pick much in the way teams have gotten bit with players like Russell, Leinart etc that are way overhyped or not a good fit.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    LOL, What did I miss? You are still focused on one trade, I'm talking second and third order of effects not just the first. My guess, he had his board set about the following way:

    1A Kalil OT
    1B Claiborne CB
    1C Barron S
    1D Blackmon WR
    1E Reiff OT
    1F Smith S

    I think he would have been happy with extra picks and 1A and 1B and if he didn't get either of those he would have taken Barron and moved back up for Reiff but wouldn't have been quite as happy after missing out on one of the top flight players in this draft.

    If he couldn't get any business drummed up, he probably would have taken Kalil, and then tried to move up to get his other priority (S) late in the first round. To do that he probably knew about were he needed to get and what it would have taken to get there.

    So how do you drum up that business......You work multiple fronts in order to draw interest from different teams interested in different players....

    The Tannehill stuff wasn't working........

    So your next best bet is Cleveland.......You have a pretty good hunch that they want to get the RB (4 Rushing TD's in 2010) and you have a pretty good idea that the Bucs also have an interest (Blount cannot pass block and makes their offense 1 dimensional/predictable) in Richardson. Heck they showed so much interest in him Blount came out and said he would be good with him on the team.

    OK, now you have Cleveland nervous and they come and tell you that they will give you multiple extra picks so your sure that one is in the bag. All the while keeping the Bucs informed on what Cleveland is willing to give.

    So you now that you have Cleveland in the bag and Tampa knowing they are going to miss out on their number 1 guy, you start working a second trade with them with the intent of trying to convince them to move up one spot so you don't take their second option (Claiborne). To do that you need to make them think you ARE in fact considering taking him.

    Here is were you can start hacking on him if you want because I think he completely missed the Dallas interest in Claiborne. Or maybe he did hear from Dallas, but Dallas wasn't willing to give up enough to move to 4 cause that would have put you down to 14 and you would have missed out on all 3 of your top candidates (Kalil, Claiborne, Barron) and you would have had to take Reiff and Harris.

    His mindset was, OK, I've got Kalil, and my extra picks and have enough to get back into the first to get Smith.

    Again, how did you miss that? Probably not a chess player I think......
    You're missing the point. The smokescreen RS threw out there for interest in Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon, didn't influence the Cleveland trade.

    RS didn't drum up a bidding war between Cleveland & Tampa. The interest in Richardson by both teams was there all along.

    What transpired once we had the 4th pick is moot, because the trade were discussing is already a done deal.

    You have no idea if there was secondary trade talks with Tampa Bay once we had the 4th. That is merely speculation. I think you're really reaching & stretching it by claiming the smokescreen was put in place by RS before the draft to drum up interest in the pick he would receive after making the then unforeseen trade.

    The Bucs had no interest in moving up to take Claiborn at #4. In fact when Claiborn dropped in their lap at #5, they didn't have interest then & opted to trade the pick away for the #7 pick and took a S instead.

    Yes I am a chess player and yes we should play. How many weeks preparation do you need to plan out your strategy?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    , it was a 5'10" WR.
    Why are you so focused on him only being 5'10"?

    Quick question(s):

    a. Who is the most important WR on the staff based on how he is used in the scheme?
    b. How tall is he?
    c. Is there a good chance he might go down during the season?
    d. Wouldn't it be a wise idea to have a good backup behind him (at a cheap price) that you could plug in if your primary, most productive, most important receiver went down?

    As I said earlier, your WR corps is already set. The WR's you drafted this year are nothing more than backups, why waste high picks on them especially when you have other needs?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Why are you so focused on him only being 5'10"?

    Quick question(s):

    a. Who is the most important WR on the staff based on how he is used in the scheme?
    b. How tall is he?
    c. Is there a good chance he might go down during the season?
    d. Wouldn't it be a wise idea to have a good backup behind him (at a cheap price) that you could plug in if your primary, most productive, most important receiver went down?

    As I said earlier, your WR corps is already set. The WR's you drafted this year are nothing more than backups, why waste high picks on them especially when you have other needs?
    Wouldn't we have been better off drafting a receiver with the potential to start on the outside BEFORE we drafted Percy's backup?
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    You're missing the point. The smokescreen RS threw out there for interest in Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon, didn't influence the Cleveland trade.

    RS didn't drum up a bidding war between Cleveland & Tampa. The interest in Richardson by both teams was there all along.
    Sigh. So if the interest was already there (which we both agree on), ole Ricky boy didn't have to do anything......cleveland and Tampa traded phone calls between them and figured out who was going to give us the most I guess.


    What transpired once we had the 4th pick is moot, because the trade were discussing is already a done deal.
    Again, I agree, but now we start talking about the next trade.

    You have no idea if there was secondary trade talks with Tampa Bay once we had the 4th. That is merely speculation. I think you're really reaching & stretching it by claiming the smokescreen was put in place by RS before the draft to drum up interest in the pick he would receive after making the then unforeseen trade.
    Was I personally on the phone? Nope, but the talks were going on none the less even though you don't want to agree.

    Again, if you to just google Blount and Richardson together and you will see how active they were just for Richardson, after that was going to fall through, they were then after Claiborne, again, just take a look at what has happened in their secondary (jail/retirements/CB to S ect),

    If you don't think that Spielman was working them by talking about his interest in Claiborne, then as you say, I wasn't on the phone, but there is enough jibber jabber out there that makes me pretty sure it was happening.

    Besides, you just like to throw the (you have no proof) card out there when you know your getting at the end of your defense. Just relax. Enjoy the discussion, cause thats all it is, is a discussion.

    In the end, none of us have any proof for the stuff we spew out. Thats why its called a Discussion site.

    The Bucs had no interest in moving up to take Claiborn at #4. In fact when Claiborn dropped in their lap at #5, they didn't have interest then & opted to trade the pick away for the #7 pick and took a S instead.
    Again, I said, here is were you can hack on him if you like because he missed the boat on Dallas.

    Were am I failing in getting this across to you?

    Yes I am a chess player and yes we should play. How many weeks preparation do you need to plan out your strategy?
    I don't need prep. Your best move is probably scholars mate......snicker....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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