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  1. #141
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Even the worst GM would negotiate a trade.
    And there you go.

    So why should we be praising him again?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #142
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    GMs always say they got the guy they wanted. Why would the Bucs say we were prepared to give up a 1st and 2 thirds? They are more likely to say, we didn't make a serious offer and we got the player we wanted.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    It's only a good trade if he picks the right players (IMO, he did not). That has yet to be seen.

    Lots of question marks.
    How do you know? They haven't played a game yet. If we kind a few solid starters from the draft, then it was a success. I think we did what it took to have a successful, not an insanely superior, draft. And consistant successful drafts make long term contenders.
    Trying to bring rationale to an irrational site

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Spielman did the wrong thing. I agree that he did. What I disagree with is the fact that some are claiming that it was sheer genius by Spielman that made the trade & masterminded it. He didn't break new ground by trading a pick or rock the world with anything earth shattering that hasn't been done before.
    What a great thread. Some really good stuff going on between you and Nodack, but you both are missing one thing to factor in when considering how good (or bad) our GM might have done when he got the deal done......

    Look at what the other teams gave to move up into the top ten.....

    The Browns only moved up one spot. Granted it was from 4 to 3, but their 4th was worth alot. Other teams moved down and didn't get anywhere near what Spielman got my friends.

    Browns Give Up: 1st (4th overall), 4th, 5th, 7th round picks in 2012
    Vikings Give Up: 1st (3rd overall) round pick in 2012
    Thats 3 extra picks my friend, to move one spot.


    Jaguars Give Up: 1st (7th overall), 4th round pick in 2012
    Buccaneers Give Up: 1st (5rd overall) round pick in 2012
    Thats one extra pick to move up a couple of spots.

    Rams Give Up
    : 1st (6th overall) round pick in 2012
    Cowboys Give Up: 1st (14rd overall), 2nd round pick in 2012
    Thats one extra pick to move up 8 spots.

    Eagles Give Up
    : 1st (15th overall), 4th, 6th round pick in 2012
    Seahawks Give Up: 1st (11th overall) round pick in 2012
    2 extra picks to move up 4.

    Again, like him or not, he worked a good deal and he did it, because either the desire was there to get up by Tampa and the Browns new it, or he pulled the wool over the Browns eyes over a period of a few weeks were he made them think there was the desire.

    Either way, like some on here say, it wasn't a no brainer my friend. Give the guy some credit and hack on him for something he did/will do wrong. In this case there isn't anything to hack on.


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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    What a great thread. Some really good stuff going on between you and Nodack, but you both are missing one thing to factor in when considering how good (or bad) our GM might have done when he got the deal done......

    Look at what the other teams gave to move up into the top ten.....

    The Browns only moved up one spot. Granted it was from 4 to 3, but their 4th was worth alot. Other teams moved down and didn't get anywhere near what Spielman got my friends.

    Browns Give Up: 1st (4th overall), 4th, 5th, 7th round picks in 2012
    Vikings Give Up: 1st (3rd overall) round pick in 2012
    Thats 3 extra picks my friend, to move one spot.


    Jaguars Give Up: 1st (7th overall), 4th round pick in 2012
    Buccaneers Give Up: 1st (5rd overall) round pick in 2012
    Thats one extra pick to move up a couple of spots.

    Rams Give Up
    : 1st (6th overall) round pick in 2012
    Cowboys Give Up: 1st (14rd overall), 2nd round pick in 2012
    Thats one extra pick to move up 8 spots.

    Eagles Give Up
    : 1st (15th overall), 4th, 6th round pick in 2012
    Seahawks Give Up: 1st (11th overall) round pick in 2012
    2 extra picks to move up 4.

    Again, like him or not, he worked a good deal and he did it, because either the desire was there to get up by Tampa and the Browns new it, or he pulled the wool over the Browns eyes over a period of a few weeks were he made them think there was the desire.

    Either way, like some on here say, it wasn't a no brainer my friend. Give the guy some credit and hack on him for something he did/will do wrong. In this case there isn't anything to hack on.

    That's apples & oranges since those other teams didn't hold the 3rd pick. You're talking the 5th, 6th & 7th pick there in comparison.

    If your're going to play that game, how did Spielman's deal compare to what the Redskins gave the Rams for the #2 pick.

    Looks mediocre in comparison, now doesn't it?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    That's apples & oranges since those other teams didn't hold the 3rd pick. You're talking the 5th, 6th & 7th pick there in comparison.

    If your're going to play that game, how did Spielman's deal compare to what the Redskins gave the Rams for the #2 pick.

    Looks mediocre in comparison, now doesn't it?
    Only to the uneducated......(snicker).....

    Just kidding, ......How so?

    Rams give up the No. 2 pick in the 2012 Draft,

    Redskins give up the No. 6 overall pick this year, first-round pick next year and first-round in 2014 and the second-round pick this year.
    One team was after a Franchise QB that multiple people were after. One team was trying to get a RB that other teams might or might not have been trying to get.

    Like it or not, it was a damn fine move.



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  7. #147
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    It was only a good move if it works out. Personally I don't think they got a player of the caliber they should have with the pick they took at the top of the draft and I think they reached when they traded back up to get the second pick which took away some of the value that they gained in the first trade.
    If you look at the history this team has in developing the talent they get after the fist pick they take it doesn't bode well for this draft class to be anything other than ordinary at best. I wanted a GM we got one so hopefully he did make the right decisions and hopefully we have put the right coaches in place to develop these young men. In the end it can only get better or worse. unless it stays the same.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    It was only a good move if it works out. Personally I don't think they got a player of the caliber they should have with the pick they took at the top of the draft and I think they reached when they traded back up to get the second pick which took away some of the value that they gained in the first trade.
    If you look at the history this team has in developing the talent they get after the fist pick they take it doesn't bode well for this draft class to be anything other than ordinary at best. I wanted a GM we got one so hopefully he did make the right decisions and hopefully we have put the right coaches in place to develop these young men. In the end it can only get better or worse. unless it stays the same.
    Now there is a man who can truly make a decision and have the conviction to follow through on what he really thinks. J/K

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  9. #149
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    Something pointed out by PF, Singer, and countless other people on the internet that I disagree with is the sentiment that the trade Spielman worked out involving our 1st rounder was only worth it if the players we received turn out to be contributors on our team. I disagree with this because I believe the trading process and the drafting process are separate.

    No matter who we got with those other picks that is 3 more players than we would have drafted from our previous position, in addition to Matt Kalil, the man we were going to take with our 3rd overall pick. The trade was successful because we did not lose the person we wanted and we garnered extra picks. The drafting may result in nothing, but that doesn't mean the trade was a fail. We got value for our 3rd while losing nothing. It can't be seen as anything but good. Whether it was the "obvious thing to do" or not is irrelevant. Spielman made the right call and GMs and teams ignore what is seen as the "obvious thing to do" year in and year out. Give him some credit for the trade.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Only to the uneducated......(snicker).....

    Just kidding, ......How so?

    Rams give up the No. 2 pick in the 2012 Draft,

    Redskins give up the No. 6 overall pick this year, first-round pick next year and first-round in 2014 and the second-round pick this year.
    One team was after a Franchise QB that multiple people were after. One team was trying to get a RB that other teams might or might not have been trying to get.

    Like it or not, it was a damn fine move.



    How so? You based how good our trade was based on what other teams got for later picks after ours, but failed to compare it to what the the Rams got.

    Besides swapping first rounders, an additional 4th, 5th & 7th rounder this year pales in comparison to getting an additional 2nd round pick this year & two additional 1st round picks in the next two years.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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