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  1. #51
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    Boy, am I glad I stuck to my guns and read the whole thread before posting any responses. There are a lot of good points made on all sides of this one.

    First off, I'd like to say to Whackthepack, if you are still out there reading, please reconsider your decision to leave. The board is a better place for your presence, despite any argument with your opinions. Please don't construe a counter-argument as a personal attack. It's way too easy to read that in where it really wasn't intended.

    Second, I wonder whether anyone, from either the Vikings organization or Brett Favre's people, has considered that possibility of some intermediate ground such as what Bloodyhorns first suggested here. Favre could be at Camp, but not running any contact drills and such. There's a lot he could still do to help out, without that physical exertion and punishment.

    I guess that would boil down to one simple question: Just why is it that Favre doesn't want to be there at Training Camp?

    Now, it's my understanding (and I could be mistaken) that it is a physical issue. He's old, you know, and just can't take the grind like he used to, and then still be in top form at the end of the season when he'll be needed most.

    I hope that's it, but if so, then why not take the middle road? Has no one even considered it? After all, it does take care of most of the presumed morale and bonding issues, while still providing a respite from the physical punishment.

    If, however, Brett doesn't want to be there for some other reason... well, I have a real problem with that. Somewhat with Brett for putting himself above the team, but moreso with Childress and company for not forcing the issue. Perhaps there is some other valid reason, but I'm just not seeing it right now. Therefore, It's an unavoidable conclusion that Childress wimped out and gave in to a spoiled child. Any good parent knows that you can't let a child get away with that. It sets a really bad example for the rest of the players, and despite what they might say to the media, I'm 100% positive that some of them must resent it. Showing up, in ANY capacity, would go a long way toward fixing that.

    My third point is this: While it is true that Brett Favre doesn't NEED Training Camp, it is equally true that Training Camp, and by extension, the Vikings team as a whole, does need Brett Favre. The reasons have been adequately stated by several others before me.

    Now I realize that this is all idealistic, and the world we actually live in is far from perfect, but a man has to have his principles. Without that, we are nothing.

    So for me, it comes down to a matter of personal honor and responsibility. And if it's not a purely physical issue, then I must find Mr. Favre to be sadly lacking in both. And if it IS purely physical, then someone really ought to give him the non-contact option, at least for the first few weeks, so that he can work his way in gradually, get in shape without getting hit, and support his team in all of the mental and emotional ways possible.

    Even is he is just an irresponsible honorless jerk, that still doesn't mean I don't want him back. Idealism and realism aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I'll take what I can get. But as Caine and others have said, I don't have to like it.

    Brett Favre gives us our best chance at a Super Bowl season. Not our only chance, though, as I still firmly believe that this TEAM is good enough to give us at least a reasonable chance even without him.

    Bottom line, I would very much prefer that he be at camp, in whatever capacity he is able, but I doubt he'll get there very soon. And I can live with that.

    But I can still bitch about it if I want to.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  2. #52
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    Boy, am I glad I stuck to my guns and read the whole thread before posting any responses. There are a lot of good points made on all sides of this one.

    First off, I'd like to say to Whackthepack, if you are still out there reading, please reconsider your decision to leave. The board is a better place for your presence, despite any argument with your opinions. Please don't construe a counter-argument as a personal attack. It's way too easy to read that in where it really wasn't intended.

    Second, I wonder whether anyone, from either the Vikings organization or Brett Favre's people, has considered that possibility of some intermediate ground such as what Bloodyhorns first suggested here. Favre could be at Camp, but not running any contact drills and such. There's a lot he could still do to help out, without that physical exertion and punishment.

    I guess that would boil down to one simple question: Just why is it that Favre doesn't want to be there at Training Camp?

    Now, it's my understanding (and I could be mistaken) that it is a physical issue. He's old, you know, and just can't take the grind like he used to, and then still be in top form at the end of the season when he'll be needed most.

    I hope that's it, but if so, then why not take the middle road? Has no one even considered it? After all, it does take care of most of the presumed morale and bonding issues, while still providing a respite from the physical punishment.

    If, however, Brett doesn't want to be there for some other reason... well, I have a real problem with that. Somewhat with Brett for putting himself above the team, but moreso with Childress and company for not forcing the issue. Perhaps there is some other valid reason, but I'm just not seeing it right now. Therefore, It's an unavoidable conclusion that Childress wimped out and gave in to a spoiled child. Any good parent knows that you can't let a child get away with that. It sets a really bad example for the rest of the players, and despite what they might say to the media, I'm 100% positive that some of them must resent it. Showing up, in ANY capacity, would go a long way toward fixing that.

    My third point is this: While it is true that Brett Favre doesn't NEED Training Camp, it is equally true that Training Camp, and by extension, the Vikings team as a whole, does need Brett Favre. The reasons have been adequately stated by several others before me.

    Now I realize that this is all idealistic, and the world we actually live in is far from perfect, but a man has to have his principles. Without that, we are nothing.

    So for me, it comes down to a matter of personal honor and responsibility. And if it's not a purely physical issue, then I must find Mr. Favre to be sadly lacking in both. And if it IS purely physical, then someone really ought to give him the non-contact option, at least for the first few weeks, so that he can work his way in gradually, get in shape without getting hit, and support his team in all of the mental and emotional ways possible.

    Even is he is just an irresponsible honorless jerk, that still doesn't mean I don't want him back. Idealism and realism aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I'll take what I can get. But as Caine and others have said, I don't have to like it.

    Brett Favre gives us our best chance at a Super Bowl season. Not our only chance, though, as I still firmly believe that this TEAM is good enough to give us at least a reasonable chance even without him.

    Bottom line, I would very much prefer that he be at camp, in whatever capacity he is able, but I doubt he'll get there very soon. And I can live with that.

    But I can still bitch about it if I want to.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  3. #53
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    Boy, am I glad I stuck to my guns and read the whole thread before posting any responses. There are a lot of good points made on all sides of this one.

    First off, I'd like to say to Whackthepack, if you are still out there reading, please reconsider your decision to leave. The board is a better place for your presence, despite any argument with your opinions. Please don't construe a counter-argument as a personal attack. It's way too easy to read that in where it really wasn't intended.

    Second, I wonder whether anyone, from either the Vikings organization or Brett Favre's people, has considered that possibility of some intermediate ground such as what Bloodyhorns first suggested here. Favre could be at Camp, but not running any contact drills and such. There's a lot he could still do to help out, without that physical exertion and punishment.

    I guess that would boil down to one simple question: Just why is it that Favre doesn't want to be there at Training Camp?

    Now, it's my understanding (and I could be mistaken) that it is a physical issue. He's old, you know, and just can't take the grind like he used to, and then still be in top form at the end of the season when he'll be needed most.

    I hope that's it, but if so, then why not take the middle road? Has no one even considered it? After all, it does take care of most of the presumed morale and bonding issues, while still providing a respite from the physical punishment.

    If, however, Brett doesn't want to be there for some other reason... well, I have a real problem with that. Somewhat with Brett for putting himself above the team, but moreso with Childress and company for not forcing the issue. Perhaps there is some other valid reason, but I'm just not seeing it right now. Therefore, It's an unavoidable conclusion that Childress wimped out and gave in to a spoiled child. Any good parent knows that you can't let a child get away with that. It sets a really bad example for the rest of the players, and despite what they might say to the media, I'm 100% positive that some of them must resent it. Showing up, in ANY capacity, would go a long way toward fixing that.

    My third point is this: While it is true that Brett Favre doesn't NEED Training Camp, it is equally true that Training Camp, and by extension, the Vikings team as a whole, does need Brett Favre. The reasons have been adequately stated by several others before me.

    Now I realize that this is all idealistic, and the world we actually live in is far from perfect, but a man has to have his principles. Without that, we are nothing.

    So for me, it comes down to a matter of personal honor and responsibility. And if it's not a purely physical issue, then I must find Mr. Favre to be sadly lacking in both. And if it IS purely physical, then someone really ought to give him the non-contact option, at least for the first few weeks, so that he can work his way in gradually, get in shape without getting hit, and support his team in all of the mental and emotional ways possible.

    Even is he is just an irresponsible honorless jerk, that still doesn't mean I don't want him back. Idealism and realism aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I'll take what I can get. But as Caine and others have said, I don't have to like it.

    Brett Favre gives us our best chance at a Super Bowl season. Not our only chance, though, as I still firmly believe that this TEAM is good enough to give us at least a reasonable chance even without him.

    Bottom line, I would very much prefer that he be at camp, in whatever capacity he is able, but I doubt he'll get there very soon. And I can live with that.

    But I can still bitch about it if I want to.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  4. #54
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    *(#W%*(# ^%@)&%^@# triple post again!

    Mods, please delete if you would be so kind.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  5. #55
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    V-Unit wrote:
    The fact is, there are extremely few players and/or situations where that is possible. Most people need camp, Brett Favre doesn't.

    -V-[/quote]

    1. Yes he does. There's a thing called timing & getting in rythym & timing with your receivers. I don't want to here he zigged when he should have zagged, again. Especially after the Saints game.

    2. It's not always a question of need. TC is mandatory for ALL player no matter how big their ego is or how good they are. Thought I read somewhere Favre gained weight & was a little out of shape.

    Do you feel it would be alright for JA, K-Will, Jimmy K or Hutch to waltz out of camp right now & not return until a week before the regular season?

    Don't dance around the question. A simple yes or now with a brief explanation will suffice.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #56
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    singersp wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    The fact is, there are extremely few players and/or situations where that is possible. Most people need camp, Brett Favre doesn't.

    -V-
    1. Yes he does. There's a thing called timing & getting in rythym & timing with your receivers. I don't want to here he zigged when he should have zagged, again. Especially after the Saints game.

    2. It's not always a question of need. TC is mandatory for ALL player no matter how big their ego is or how good they are. Thought I read somewhere Favre gained weight & was a little out of shape.

    Do you feel it would be alright for JA, K-Will, Jimmy K or Hutch to waltz out of camp right now & not return until a week before the regular season?

    Don't dance around the question. A simple yes or now with a brief explanation will suffice.[/quote]

    1. Brett has already proved that he can get on the same page with his receivers very quickly. Two weeks is all he needs to get back into shape.

    2. TC has not been made mandatory by Favre. The team decided that. If they were demanding his presence and he still wasn't showing, then I'd have a problem with it. They aren't.

    Allen - didn't have his best year, or lead the league in sacks. Lowest tackle total since his rookie year.

    KWill - lowest tackle total of his career, average sack total for a DT.

    Jimmy K - backup who wouldn't have a job if he didn;t show up to camp. He had a measley 10 catches last year.

    Hutch - part of a "struggling" OL that needs to fare better both in the run and passing game.

    But above all, those players all have no more than half the experience that Brett Favre has, and 0 combined SB rings. They have both a need and potential to get better, and thats why they need to be in camp.

    -V-
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  7. #57
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    There is always the remote possibility that Favre's ankle is bothering him to the extent that he doesn't feel he can play any more.
    It's a novel concept to accept a simple truth. But hey, anything is possible.

    If he feels his ankle isn't good enough to play this year, why would he go sit around at training camp?

    What would you say about him if he came to camp, took his pay, and then announced he couldn't play?

    I know what's right and wrong, but unfortunately that's not the reality of this situation.

    I'm not really buying the simple explanation; but it has to be considered as a possibility!
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  8. #58
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Souhan tries to stir up controversy

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    I'm not really buying the simple explanation; but it has to be considered as a possibility!
    I think he's on the roids.

    Get him some Tuck's, quickly!

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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