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  1. #21
    Billy Boy is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "mountainviking" wrote:

    The assumptions about Fraizer blitzing comes from his experience playing in the old Bears' 4-6, aggressive, attack defense, and his exp working with Johnson in Philly.
    And, I did read somewhere, something he said about trying to count on the front four, but bringing some blitz too.
    Thanks Mountainman.
    I kept seeing writers state that he likes to blitz or has a history of blitzing but never explained this assumption/conclusion.


    All the kids my age pee their pants, it's the coolest.

  2. #22
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    Frazier has always been a fairly vocal proponent of the blitz, and it wouldn't be hard to blitz more than Tomlin did.


    From the pre-season game I did notice a fair number of blitzes, as well as quite a few formations showing blitz and then dropping back into coverage.
    I like that.
    Last year, even when we showed blitz teams wouldn't check up because they knew we rarely did.
    It is kind of like the play action pass.
    It is only effective if you carry though with the threat sometimes.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #23
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "Billy" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:

    The assumptions about Fraizer blitzing comes from his experience playing in the old Bears' 4-6, aggressive, attack defense, and his exp working with Johnson in Philly.
    And, I did read somewhere, something he said about trying to count on the front four, but bringing some blitz too.
    Thanks Mountainman.
    I kept seeing writers state that he likes to blitz or has a history of blitzing but never explained this assumption/conclusion.
    Buddy Ryan was the defensive coordinator of the Vikings 1976-77. He coached the Purple People Eaters with a motto of "meet at the quarterback".

    1978 Ryan became defensive coordinator of the Bears and revolutionized defensive football with his "46" package.

    The "46" was an innovative defense with a unique defensive front; the line was shifted dramatically to the weak side (opposite the Tight End), with both Offensive Guards and the Center "covered" by the Left Defensive End and both Defensive Tackles. This front forced offenses to immediately account for the defenders directly lined up in front of them, making it considerably harder to execute blocking assignments such as pulling, trapping, and in general, pass protection. Moreover, the Right Defensive End would align outside of the Left Offensive Tackle, leaving him "on an island" when trying to block him.

    Another key feature of the "46" is that both outside linebackers play on the same side of the formation. The linebackers line up behind the linemen two or three yards from the line of scrimmage. The primary tactic is to rush five to eight players on each play, either to get to the quarterback quickly or disrupt running plays.

    The formation was very effective in the 1980s NFL because it often eliminated a team's running game and forced them to throw the ball. This was difficult for many teams at the time because most offensive passing games centered around the play action pass.

    Currently, the "46" is rarely used in modern professional and college football due to the emergence of the West Coast Offense, popularized by San Francisco 49ers head coach Bill Walsh, and other offensive schemes that rely on short, timed passes.

    In 1985 the Bears with Ryan won the superbowl with the defense setting many records. That defense was a sight to behold.Pressure with a capital P.

    That's the team Frazier played on!

    The current Vikings defensive scheme
    requires pressure from the front 4 primarily.
    In order for the blitz to work in this defense, someone will have to have man coverage.

    I noticed Tomlin blitz with a linebacker and have a lineman try to cover a receiver or back downfield last year. It was a rediculous failure.Did anyone else see that?

    Anyway, sorry for the long winded response. Mountainviking had already answered so well. It's just that some folks are to young to have seen a Buddy Ryan defense. And if Frazier learned from playing for Ryan and coaching for Dungy; no more needs to be said about his credentials in my opinion!

    BTW, James can only help our team and its depth. I hope he gets back 100%.




    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Most Olinemen are over 300 lbs these days, so yeah size helps.

    I think we might see some sort of lighter, faster DE combo in on passing downs.
    Ie. third and longs...when we're pretty sure the LBs etc can step up to end a run play if needed.
    So far, from what's been said, Udeze is RDE starter (but Scott is pushing him,) and James will have every chance to reclaim his starter status (very likely) once he is fully ready.
    Any which way, add Robison into that rotation, and I think we'll see more pressure on QBs this year.

    The Tampa-2 is based on getting pressure from the front four because everyone else has a zone to cover.
    The assumptions about Fraizer blitzing comes from his experience playing in the old Bears' 4-6, aggressive, attack defense, and his exp working with Johnson in Philly.
    And, I did read somewhere, something he said about trying to count on the front four, but bringing some blitz too.
    Nice post my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:

    The assumptions about Fraizer blitzing comes from his experience playing in the old Bears' 4-6, aggressive, attack defense, and his exp working with Johnson in Philly.
    And, I did read somewhere, something he said about trying to count on the front four, but bringing some blitz too.
    Thanks Mountainman.
    I kept seeing writers state that he likes to blitz or has a history of blitzing but never explained this assumption/conclusion.
    Buddy Ryan was the defensive coordinator of the Vikings 1976-77. He coached the Purple People Eaters with a motto of "meet at the quarterback".

    1978 Ryan became defensive coordinator of the Bears and revolutionized defensive football with his "46" package.

    The "46" was an innovative defense with a unique defensive front; the line was shifted dramatically to the weak side (opposite the Tight End), with both Offensive Guards and the Center "covered" by the Left Defensive End and both Defensive Tackles. This front forced offenses to immediately account for the defenders directly lined up in front of them, making it considerably harder to execute blocking assignments such as pulling, trapping, and in general, pass protection. Moreover, the Right Defensive End would align outside of the Left Offensive Tackle, leaving him "on an island" when trying to block him.

    Another key feature of the "46" is that both outside linebackers play on the same side of the formation. The linebackers line up behind the linemen two or three yards from the line of scrimmage. The primary tactic is to rush five to eight players on each play, either to get to the quarterback quickly or disrupt running plays.

    The formation was very effective in the 1980s NFL because it often eliminated a team's running game and forced them to throw the ball. This was difficult for many teams at the time because most offensive passing games centered around the play action pass.

    Currently, the "46" is rarely used in modern professional and college football due to the emergence of the West Coast Offense, popularized by San Francisco 49ers head coach Bill Walsh, and other offensive schemes that rely on short, timed passes.

    In 1985 the Bears with Ryan won the superbowl with the defense setting many records. That defense was a sight to behold.Pressure with a capital P.

    That's the team Frazier played on!

    The current Vikings defensive scheme
    requires pressure from the front 4 primarily.
    In order for the blitz to work in this defense, someone will have to have man coverage.

    I noticed Tomlin blitz with a linebacker and have a lineman try to cover a receiver or back downfield last year. It was a rediculous failure.Did anyone else see that?

    Anyway, sorry for the long winded response. Mountainviking had already answered so well. It's just that some folks are to young to have seen a Buddy Ryan defense. And if Frazier learned from playing for Ryan and coaching for Dungy; no more needs to be said about his credentials in my opinion!

    BTW, James can only help our team and its depth. I hope he gets back 100%.
    Very Nice my friend.
    Great stuff.
    Mtnman, yours and Nodaks are quality posts my friends.
    ;D

    I forgot about Buddy at Mn.



    Additionally, I remember the Bears of 85.
    I was stationed on a ship (USS Boone FFG-28) were damn near everybody was a bears fan.
    Man I caught hell that year.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Billy Boy is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Very Nice my friend.
    Great stuff.
    Mtnman, yours and Nodaks are quality posts my friends.

    ;D

    I forgot about Buddy at Mn.



    Additionally, I remember the Bears of 85.
    I was stationed on a ship (USS Boone FFG-28) were damn near everybody was a bears fan.
    Man I caught hell that year.

    ;D
    I believe either Jargo owes some credit to Wikipedia or Wiki owes some credit to him.
    Either way both their posts are always solid, thanks.
    KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!


    All the kids my age pee their pants, it's the coolest.

  7. #27
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "Billy" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Very Nice my friend.
    Great stuff.
    Mtnman, yours and Nodaks are quality posts my friends.

    ;D

    I forgot about Buddy at Mn.



    Additionally, I remember the Bears of 85.
    I was stationed on a ship (USS Boone FFG-28) were gol 'darnit near everybody was a bears fan.
    Man I caught hell that year.

    ;D
    I believe either Jargo owes some credit to Wikipedia or Wiki owes some credit to him.
    Either way both their posts are always solid, thanks.
    KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!
    I feel for you out on that ship with all those Bears fans.
    I was trying to build a case for Frazier learning from two defensive legends of the game in Ryan and Dungy.
    I definately owe Wikipedia. I thought I typed in the link but must have lost it going back and forth on google.
    There's a diagram of the "46" defense there that's interesting. And 46 comes from a players jersey number, it isn't a 4-6 defense!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46_defense
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  8. #28
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    Recipe for success:
    1. Start James and Scott.
    2. Rest James frequently because he is coming off injury. Use Edwards to spell James.
    3. Spell Scott with Udeze. Keep all DEs fresh by rotating them in and out. Use our depth to our advantage.
    4. Bring in Edwards for Scott when it is 3rd and Long for the opposing offense.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  9. #29
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    And you gonna be in trouble...hey la, hey la, Erasmus's back...LOL
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  10. #30
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    Re: So James Is Back...

    "V" wrote:
    Recipe for success:
    1. Start James and Scott.
    2. Rest James frequently because he is coming off injury. Use Edwards to spell James.
    3. Spell Scott with Udeze. Keep all DEs fresh by rotating them in and out. Use our depth to our advantage.
    4. Bring in Edwards for Scott when it is 3rd and Long for the opposing offense.
    Maybe we could even use Robison as a blitzing LB as well.
    ;D
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

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