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  1. #21
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I can buy into that line of thought. Problem is, people still don't like Jamarca even though he was hitting on all cylinders.

    To be graded out that high is remarkable and yet he is still hacked on by people because he didn't get the "Sexy" INT but because Smitty did get the "INT" his issues in run support are overlooked.

    Believe it or not, FS's are still expected to play the run. Not just be good in the pass.
    Well my friend, that is because he still doesn't pass the eye test in his fourth year when compared to a rookie. That isn't such a hard thing to understand. You can try to skew stats all day but like Big Tom Callahan said " I can take a look at a steak by looking up the cows ass but i'll take the butchers word for it"

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    OK, who gets credit for 2 of those picks? Smitty for catching the ball that was over thrown by the QB because he was under pressure or the DL for putting the pressure on the QB forcing him to make a bad throw.

    Truth is, Smitty wasn't even close to a WR when he got 2 picks. He was standing back in the zone alone and one of them he was up in the middle zone and picked a bad throw to a WR that was being blanketed by a LB.

    Back in his zone
    Harrison Smith Interception #2 - YouTube

    Short zone/LB covering
    Minnesota Vikings safety Harrison Smith pick six - NFL Videos

    Don't get me wrong, I love the kid. You all know my soft spot for S's (not named Sharper). Probably even going to step out and replace the old K-dubb with his jersey this year, but dang if Jamarca doesn't deserve some credit for not only his play but how his improved play allowed Harrison to do what he did this year.
    Most interceptions are QB error. Yes luck is involved, but the good play makers are in the correct spot more often. Sanford has 2 int in his 4 year career, none returned for a TD.
    Smith also had 11 pass deflections, Sanford has 10 in his 4 year career.
    Smith had 1 sack, Sanford has 1 sack in 4 years.
    Smith is a play maker, and a game changer.

  3. #23
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I can buy into that line of thought. Problem is, people still don't like Jamarca even though he was hitting on all cylinders.

    To be graded out that high is remarkable and yet he is still hacked on by people because he didn't get the "Sexy" INT but because Smitty did get the "INT" his issues in run support are overlooked.

    Believe it or not, FS's are still expected to play the run. Not just be good in the pass.
    Interceptions are far more than 'sexy', they are game changers. Vikings recent history seems to undervalue db's who can hang on to the ball when the opportunity is there, or cover well for that matter. Even if it is zone coverage, the back needs to be able to cover within that zone.

    Smith and now Rhodes seems to be trending toward improvement in coverage and ability to catch the ball.
    Sanford is serviceable but is still out of position more than he should be. He works hard and is better than Raymond, but still needs to improve. Better play from Sanford and the nickel corner will give a healthy Jared Allen a fair shot at the sack record.

  4. #24
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    Smith will be awesome for years to come.
    We're bringing purple back.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregair13 View Post
    Smith will be awesome for years to come.
    That post was from my phone. Cool.
    We're bringing purple back.

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Interceptions are far more than 'sexy', they are game changers. Vikings recent history seems to undervalue db's who can hang on to the ball when the opportunity is there, or cover well for that matter. Even if it is zone coverage, the back needs to be able to cover within that zone.

    Smith and now Rhodes seems to be trending toward improvement in coverage and ability to catch the ball.
    Sanford is serviceable but is still out of position more than he should be. He works hard and is better than Raymond, but still needs to improve. Better play from Sanford and the nickel corner will give a healthy Jared Allen a fair shot at the sack record.
    You can say that everyone has to improve but my point your missing is that Jamarca played well enough to grade out as the 26th best safety out of 88 that were graded.

    That means he was head and shoulders about other teams starting FS's.

    If he didn't do that last year, Smitty doesn't do what he did last year. Just that simple.

    As to what is sexy and what isn't......Any turnover is a game changer, just not INT's. So are Sacks and Tackles for a loss. Guess which ones happen more often during the course of a game? Same ones that caused Smitty to get 2 gimme INT's last year.

    You can put alot of value on a INT if you want, but I'd rather see consistent pressure from our front 4 getting that pressure on the QB (result INT or sack) and getting those tackles in the backfield (lots of fumbles).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    Most interceptions are QB error. Yes luck is involved, but the good play makers are in the correct spot more often. Sanford has 2 int in his 4 year career, none returned for a TD.
    Smith also had 11 pass deflections, Sanford has 10 in his 4 year career.
    Smith had 1 sack, Sanford has 1 sack in 4 years.
    Smith is a play maker, and a game changer.
    Usually FS are your play maker/game changer. Your SS is the guy that supports that effort. Much the same as your two DT's are the key to your DE's getting sacks and your LB's free to roam and make plays.

    You can even break that down further to the role your Mike and your Sam play in this scheme which allows your Will to be the play maker.

    Again, don't get me wrong, I love Smitty. Enjoy watching him come on and learn the game so fast but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the work Jamarca has put in over the years getting to the spot were he could play like he did last year.

    By the way, if you (and I'm not pointing out anyone in particular) can't appreciate the differences between what a FS and a SS do to support each other in this scheme then my point will continue to be missed.

    LOL, kindof makes me think back a few years ago when I first joined this site and had deep dark discussions with people on the differences between a RDE and a LDE.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Well my friend, that is because he still doesn't pass the eye test in his fourth year when compared to a rookie. That isn't such a hard thing to understand. You can try to skew stats all day but like Big Tom Callahan said " I can take a look at a steak by looking up the cows ass but i'll take the butchers word for it"
    LOL, you crack me up.

    Quick question, who is the eye of the beholder? A guy who just wants his eyes to see INT's or a guy who wants to see that gap filled or a zone filled when the LB is asked to run blitz? Again, the run game isn't as sexy as an INT but it is just as important.

    Heck, most of our fan base loved Whinny for his run support efforts, not sure why a SS can't get a bit of that love.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Since the term warpig has been thrown around so much on this site, mostly because of you introducing the term to us, can you do me a favor and give me the proper definition of a warpig so I can update my spreadsheet and make sure I'm using it in the right context?

    I had it in my mind, that you were looking for the classic tampa 2, 1 technique DT where the primary responsibility is to take up two OL, cover 2 gaps and allow the 3 technique DT to benefit from a single blocker and penetrate into the backfield. Floyd sure seems more the 3 technique athletic penetrating type than he does a 1 technique. Not sure he is big enough or strong enough to play the classic 1 technique.

    Then again, not sure how much we will stay true to the tampa 2 going forward. The approach of having athletic DL'men across the front 4 seems more the norm with the pass heavy offenses in the league.
    A true warpig is someone who can not only demand double teams but break them. I think that most associated that with the 1 tech because traditionally, that is your cat that does that and most of them are in the 330+ range.

    I think Shariff, based on what I saw from tape on his collegiate career, is one of those cats. I not only think that, but I think he is going to be one of an even rarer cat and that is he will be able to do it from all 4 DLmen positions (ala John Randle) and not just the 1 tech.

    I think that last part is what might confuse a few of you when I'm spewing forth my drivel (laced with alot of excitement) about this kid.

    Again, he will get most of his early reps behind K-dubb, but as the year wears on, start looking for him to start eating reps at the 1 and the 5 tech as well.

    I get chills just thinking about it.

    As to the scheme.....I've seen a few things that make me question what the heck we are doing on the defensive side of the ball.

    1. Leslie used to say we didn't have a FS and a SS, now our D-coord talks about it all the time.

    2. The move of Guion to the 1 tech when he is clearly not suited to play there. That guy is a straight stick 3 tech.

    3. The insistence of running beefed up RDE's over at LDE. Just like Edwards, I suspect we will start to see some of those ill effects showing on Rob from carrying that extra weight.

    All things put together, what used to be our strength (top 10 vs run) went to crap last year. What were we ranked vs the run, something in the 20's I think. Yikes...

    When you can't take the run away, teams have the luxury of hitting you 2 dimensionally vice one dimensionally and your back end is going to suffer considerably especially in pass defense.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    All things put together, what used to be our strength (top 10 vs run) went to crap last year. What were we ranked vs the run, something in the 20's I think. Yikes...

    When you can't take the run away, teams have the luxury of hitting you 2 dimensionally vice one dimensionally and your back end is going to suffer considerably especially in pass defense.

    According to NFL.com the Vikings ranked as follows on defense over the last 4 years (using yards):


    Rush Defense Pass Defense Total
    2009 2nd (87 ypg) 19th 6th (305 ypg)
    2010 9th (102 ypg) 10th 8th (312 ypg)
    2011 11th (107 ypg) 26th 21st (358 ypg)
    2012 11th (106 ypg) 24th 16th (350 ypg)

    We have slipped a bit on run defense as we typically ranked in the top 5 during much of Pat's reign. But our pass defense is still our biggest weakness on defense, even when our run defense was very strong.

    My guess is that we will see similar run defensive rankings, but hopefully we can improve on the pass rankings. The talent to stop the run doesn't seem much improved, but pass rush and secondary play will hopefully be better.

    On a side note, kind of interesting how the ypg stays farily consistent throughout the years from a rankings standpoint. Especially rushing ypg, passing ypg has been trending up a little bit.

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