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  1. #11
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    This will probably be long winded, so hang with me and you'll get my thoughts.

    2013 you have 3 big cap hits on the DL in the last year of their contracts:
    JA: $17M
    BR: $6.7M
    KW: $5M

    And one key player that is coming off his rookie contract in Everson Griffen.


    Personally, I think JA can be solid for another 3-4 years, but wouldn't want to go over $10M/yr with him. This is a very key contract as it will more than likely determine the fate of either Robison or Griffen. Robison will still likely find money similar to what he's making today unless he stinks it up this year. Griffen will want his payday coming off his rookie contract and think he will want at least $5M/yr. If he can put in a good year, he will most likely find that money.

    Floyd is a bargain for a few more years, if he can show he's capable of taking KW's spot then I wouldn't be surprised to see KW get let go. Guion/Ballard/Evans are all replacable, but show the value equal to their cap hit. It's also possible that we find out in 2013 that KW is still very valuable and we need to maintain a few more years. I would see a similar contract value to what he has today (~$5M/yr) maybe a little less, if the guaranteed money is low then better yet.

    My understanding is that the salary cap is not expected to go up much. Currently JA, KW, BR and EG count right at $30M against the cap. If you follow my earlier assumptions these same 4 players would equal around $27M in 2014 cap hit. So you could keep them all and still have some extra money to throw around.

    Simply put, I think KW can be signed for two additional years without necessarily booting one of the other premier DL spots. His play will dictate his worth and his salary and our salary cap will probably not be the deciding factor. JA is the key. If he is going to demand $12M+/yr, whether we keep him or not, will determine what happens to guys like KW.
    Good post Tasty...and, good perspective. DL is a key to any Team's success, and, our Vikings have a great tradition. KWill is one of my have Vikes and I would hate to see him go. That said, if his play isn't up to the necessary level, it may be time . BRob will play lights out this year and force a decision between he and Griffen...not a bad scenario. JA...well, I agree, I think he can play for a bit longer - I think he's another guy who will deliver big time this year.

    All that said, finding a way to sign them all would be a great outcome...I just don't see it. I think KWill and BRob are the odd men out - sadly. I think JA will be a focus, but, all of these points are based on a point in time and obviously subject to performance, and, the market.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
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  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    This will probably be long winded, so hang with me and you'll get my thoughts.

    2013 you have 3 big cap hits on the DL in the last year of their contracts:
    JA: $17M
    BR: $6.7M
    KW: $5M

    And one key player that is coming off his rookie contract in Everson Griffen.


    Personally, I think JA can be solid for another 3-4 years, but wouldn't want to go over $10M/yr with him. This is a very key contract as it will more than likely determine the fate of either Robison or Griffen. Robison will still likely find money similar to what he's making today unless he stinks it up this year. Griffen will want his payday coming off his rookie contract and think he will want at least $5M/yr. If he can put in a good year, he will most likely find that money.

    Floyd is a bargain for a few more years, if he can show he's capable of taking KW's spot then I wouldn't be surprised to see KW get let go. Guion/Ballard/Evans are all replacable, but show the value equal to their cap hit. It's also possible that we find out in 2013 that KW is still very valuable and we need to maintain a few more years. I would see a similar contract value to what he has today (~$5M/yr) maybe a little less, if the guaranteed money is low then better yet.

    My understanding is that the salary cap is not expected to go up much. Currently JA, KW, BR and EG count right at $30M against the cap. If you follow my earlier assumptions these same 4 players would equal around $27M in 2014 cap hit. So you could keep them all and still have some extra money to throw around.

    Simply put, I think KW can be signed for two additional years without necessarily booting one of the other premier DL spots. His play will dictate his worth and his salary and our salary cap will probably not be the deciding factor. JA is the key. If he is going to demand $12M+/yr, whether we keep him or not, will determine what happens to guys like KW.
    Good stuff but I think you missed a roster spot and didn't take into account that the staff might yet again try to add some youth at DT in next years draft.........

    Fred Evans is the odd man out that clears a roster spot so you can keep K-dubb and still add a guy.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    Good post Tasty...and, good perspective. DL is a key to any Team's success, and, our Vikings have a great tradition. KWill is one of my have Vikes and I would hate to see him go. That said, if his play isn't up to the necessary level, it may be time . BRob will play lights out this year and force a decision between he and Griffen...not a bad scenario. JA...well, I agree, I think he can play for a bit longer - I think he's another guy who will deliver big time this year.

    All that said, finding a way to sign them all would be a great outcome...I just don't see it. I think KWill and BRob are the odd men out - sadly. I think JA will be a focus, but, all of these points are based on a point in time and obviously subject to performance, and, the market.
    Here is what I think happens (really I hope).....

    JA resigns. Keeps the RDE spot. Griff resigns. Moves to LDE. Better suited than Rob. Like Ray Edwards, who added extra weight to move out there, I think Rob is going to start to break down a bit. Might even see that start mid to later part of this year.

    Keep Guion, Lose Evans Resign Kdubb and draft one more kid next year. That would leave you with the following to mix and match and work in as a rotation.....

    RDE - JA/ Johnson/Rookie
    3 TEch - Kdub/Ballard/Shariff
    1 Tech - Guion/Baker/Dawkins/Rookie
    LDE - Griff/Jackson/Reed
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Good stuff but I think you missed a roster spot and didn't take into account that the staff might yet again try to add some youth at DT in next years draft.........

    Fred Evans is the odd man out that clears a roster spot so you can keep K-dubb and still add a guy.
    I was only trying to address your question about whether we would resign KW and if so, who would have to go.

    Evans is a low cost rotational player (like Guion and Ballard) that could easily be replaced. He probably performed better than Guion though if you actually compared the two in 2012 and he came at half the cost. Guion did take quite a few more snaps.

    But what I really want to know is why in the hell do you have our newly acquired warpig penciled in as a 3 technique....looks like yet another markup on the ol' Marrdro vocabulary spreadsheet.

    Warpig -- big butted, 2 gap, hole stuffing monster. Any interior DL, just like using the word warpig.

    I saw confusion coming, so felt compelled to edit. When we drafted Floyd, you proclaimed him the warpig we needed. When I questioned whether Floyd could really be categorized as a warpig (1-technique), you assured that he was.
    Last edited by tastywaves; 07-02-2013 at 02:50 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I still marvel at how great every one seems to think this kid is but in the next breath you will all say how shitty Jamarca is.....

    Look, I love how you all glam onto the "Sexy INT" stats appreciate that he he graded out high in that area (Smitty 6th/Jamarca 38th), but he basically sucked vs the run (Smitty 71rst/Jamarca 26th).

    But if you look at overall stats (Smitty 19th and Jamarca 24th) we have a pretty damn good set of S's that compliment each other.

    Lets start looking at them in that light instead of how great one is because he made a INT or two (They actually floated to him in his zone instead of being coverage picks).
    The eye ball test says that Smith is something special. Not only did get 3 picks, he returned two of them for a TD. He also delivered some monster hits, including the one that prevented a Megatron game tying TD.
    The fact he was a rookie is even more impressive.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I still marvel at how great every one seems to think this kid is but in the next breath you will all say how shitty Jamarca is.....

    Look, I love how you all glam onto the "Sexy INT" stats appreciate that he he graded out high in that area (Smitty 6th/Jamarca 38th), but he basically sucked vs the run (Smitty 71rst/Jamarca 26th).

    But if you look at overall stats (Smitty 19th and Jamarca 24th) we have a pretty damn good set of S's that compliment each other.

    Lets start looking at them in that light instead of how great one is because he made a INT or two (They actually floated to him in his zone instead of being coverage picks).

    Much of that stems from the fact that it was Smiths rookie year and he looked damn good for a rookie while JS was in his 4th year and by your own standard that is when they should be hitting on all cylinders or reaching the top of their game. I would expect by his 4th year Smith will be significantly better than JS was this year and just like Smith this year was light years better than JS was his rookie year.

    That's all.

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Much of that stems from the fact that it was Smiths rookie year and he looked damn good for a rookie while JS was in his 4th year and by your own standard that is when they should be hitting on all cylinders or reaching the top of their game. I would expect by his 4th year Smith will be significantly better than JS was this year and just like Smith this year was light years better than JS was his rookie year.

    That's all.
    I can buy into that line of thought. Problem is, people still don't like Jamarca even though he was hitting on all cylinders.

    To be graded out that high is remarkable and yet he is still hacked on by people because he didn't get the "Sexy" INT but because Smitty did get the "INT" his issues in run support are overlooked.

    Believe it or not, FS's are still expected to play the run. Not just be good in the pass.
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  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    The eye ball test says that Smith is something special. Not only did get 3 picks, he returned two of them for a TD. He also delivered some monster hits, including the one that prevented a Megatron game tying TD.
    The fact he was a rookie is even more impressive.
    OK, who gets credit for 2 of those picks? Smitty for catching the ball that was over thrown by the QB because he was under pressure or the DL for putting the pressure on the QB forcing him to make a bad throw.

    Truth is, Smitty wasn't even close to a WR when he got 2 picks. He was standing back in the zone alone and one of them he was up in the middle zone and picked a bad throw to a WR that was being blanketed by a LB.

    Back in his zone
    Harrison Smith Interception #2 - YouTube

    Short zone/LB covering
    Minnesota Vikings safety Harrison Smith pick six - NFL Videos

    Don't get me wrong, I love the kid. You all know my soft spot for S's (not named Sharper). Probably even going to step out and replace the old K-dubb with his jersey this year, but dang if Jamarca doesn't deserve some credit for not only his play but how his improved play allowed Harrison to do what he did this year.
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  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I was only trying to address your question about whether we would resign KW and if so, who would have to go.

    Evans is a low cost rotational player (like Guion and Ballard) that could easily be replaced. He probably performed better than Guion though if you actually compared the two in 2012 and he came at half the cost. Guion did take quite a few more snaps.

    But what I really want to know is why in the hell do you have our newly acquired warpig penciled in as a 3 technique....looks like yet another markup on the ol' Marrdro vocabulary spreadsheet.

    Warpig -- big butted, 2 gap, hole stuffing monster. Any interior DL, just like using the word warpig.

    I saw confusion coming, so felt compelled to edit. When we drafted Floyd, you proclaimed him the warpig we needed. When I questioned whether Floyd could really be categorized as a warpig (1-technique), you assured that he was.
    I haven't wavered. I still think he will be the guy at the 1 especially when he gets some reps under his belt. Again, that was based on what I watched of him and how he blew doubles up.

    Think back to Johnnie Randle....Warpig? In my book yes. Probably more so that Phat Pat even though he was one as well.

    You guys are the ones who seem to have classified my desire for a Warpig as someone who weighs a ton. Probably because most of them do. Very few are in the make of John Randle, I think Shariff is one of those rare cats.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sICzQckt4Og
    John Randle - Moment of Impact - YouTube
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I haven't wavered. I still think he will be the guy at the 1 especially when he gets some reps under his belt. Again, that was based on what I watched of him and how he blew doubles up.

    Think back to Johnnie Randle....Warpig? In my book yes. Probably more so that Phat Pat even though he was one as well.

    You guys are the ones who seem to have classified my desire for a Warpig as someone who weighs a ton. Probably because most of them do. Very few are in the make of John Randle, I think Shariff is one of those rare cats.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sICzQckt4Og
    John Randle - Moment of Impact - YouTube

    Since the term warpig has been thrown around so much on this site, mostly because of you introducing the term to us, can you do me a favor and give me the proper definition of a warpig so I can update my spreadsheet and make sure I'm using it in the right context?

    I had it in my mind, that you were looking for the classic tampa 2, 1 technique DT where the primary responsibility is to take up two OL, cover 2 gaps and allow the 3 technique DT to benefit from a single blocker and penetrate into the backfield. Floyd sure seems more the 3 technique athletic penetrating type than he does a 1 technique. Not sure he is big enough or strong enough to play the classic 1 technique.

    Then again, not sure how much we will stay true to the tampa 2 going forward. The approach of having athletic DL'men across the front 4 seems more the norm with the pass heavy offenses in the league.

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