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  1. #11
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Rice never showed.


    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

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  2. #12
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Two thoughts....

    1. Rices injury history will have very little to do with the contract he gets. His talent alone will cause it to escalate higher than most want to admit.

    2. I for one will be very suprised to see Rice back in a Vikings uniform. If he is, it will have a bigger cost and that will be at the expense of one or more of the players looking for extensions this year (AD, Shanc, Sauce, EJ etc).
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  3. #13
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099408
    Two thoughts....

    1. Rices injury history will have very little to do with the contract he gets. His talent alone will cause it to escalate higher than most want to admit.

    2. I for one will be very suprised to see Rice back in a Vikings uniform. If he is, it will have a bigger cost and that will be at the expense of one or more of the players looking for extensions this year (AD, Shanc, Sauce, EJ etc).
    I will be pissed if we pay stupid money to Rice and end up losing other players as a result. Jimmy K is coming to a close in Minny and I'm not sure that he will get an extension to match what he will want. Shianco will be interesting as he may depend on how many 2 TE sets Musgrave wants to run. If he likes them then Shank will get an extension if not so much then Rudolph will move up and let the veteran move on. EJ and AD I would want to keep without a doubt and if that means us missing out on Rice then I can handle that as, overall, they will provide far more value in terms of output than Rice will IMO.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    I see a few things happening in the next few years.


    1. Shank is gone. Good player, but getting older, and we have his replacement on roster
    2. EJ goes bye-bye. Older, slower, and that femur injury did slow him down a bit. He really doesn't fit our system, and is one of the last remaining parts of the Time scheme. He'll play out his contract, but I don't see him getting extended.
    3. Jimmy K retires after his contract ends. Dude was around when Denny coached the team. MAYBE he comes back for dirt cheap, but I think he'd probably rather go out quietly than play too long
    4. AD gets his contract. Just gotta wait for the CBA. The kid will command HUGE money, and it's moronic to commit that much money without knowing the rules going forward.

    With the (hopefully) new Rookie cap, I really do see us looking to build up through the draft. Possibly trading a playmaker like Allen for a first can be helpful IF the cap is in place. Getting a number of talented rookies for cheap can be helpful in getting us in a good financial position, while having depth and talent all around the roster. That extra money can go towards locking up guys like AP or Rice.

  5. #15
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099434
    I see a few things happening in the next few years.


    1. Shank is gone. Good player, but getting older, and we have his replacement on roster
    2. EJ goes bye-bye. Older, slower, and that femur injury did slow him down a bit. He really doesn't fit our system, and is one of the last remaining parts of the Time scheme. He'll play out his contract, but I don't see him getting extended.
    3. Jimmy K retires after his contract ends. Dude was around when Denny coached the team. MAYBE he comes back for dirt cheap, but I think he'd probably rather go out quietly than play too long
    4. AD gets his contract. Just gotta wait for the CBA. The kid will command HUGE money, and it's moronic to commit that much money without knowing the rules going forward.

    With the (hopefully) new Rookie cap, I really do see us looking to build up through the draft. Possibly trading a playmaker like Allen for a first can be helpful IF the cap is in place. Getting a number of talented rookies for cheap can be helpful in getting us in a good financial position, while having depth and talent all around the roster. That extra money can go towards locking up guys like AP or Rice.
    Interesting.....

    Of course we are dealing with Bryzcheapski here so I can only say what I would do.......

    a. Shanc goes no were. Already proven that he can not only get into routes but he can block as well. Looks like the new scheme (if you can call it that) will use alot of "Multiple" TE sets. That means a increased work load on TE's not only from reps, but possible injuries as well.

    Old cliche regarding young QB's is to give them a good running game. The other one is to give them a damn good TE.

    b. Sauce. See comments above. Besides, I have seen nothing to indicate that he has either dropped his blocking abilities or can't catch the ball when asked. Both he and Dugan made some defenses look real stupid when they caught the ball basically uncovered.

    c. EJ. I don't think he goes anywhere. He played almost to probowl levels last year with the femur. By all accounts he will be back 100% this year.

    d. JA isn't going anywhere. Looks like Pagac wants to get faster on the DL. That means we need smart players. Letting a crafty vet go won't help anything. Keep JA and continue to add depth on the DL via the draft.

    Again, if it was me....I'd do what the staff started to do in 2006.....Resign key players, let the aging vets go that can't perform or are at the edge of it. Draft wisely to add depth/future stars and when you can't fix a problem via the draft, then you go out and get a Vet to fix the problem.

    Of course, I am of the mind that we still have a damn good team that is going to continue to keep getting better. Only problem I see is that they now have to try to resign 2 years of core vets instead of one because of what they did last year.
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  6. #16
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099449
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099434
    I see a few things happening in the next few years.


    1. Shank is gone. Good player, but getting older, and we have his replacement on roster
    2. EJ goes bye-bye. Older, slower, and that femur injury did slow him down a bit. He really doesn't fit our system, and is one of the last remaining parts of the Time scheme. He'll play out his contract, but I don't see him getting extended.
    3. Jimmy K retires after his contract ends. Dude was around when Denny coached the team. MAYBE he comes back for dirt cheap, but I think he'd probably rather go out quietly than play too long
    4. AD gets his contract. Just gotta wait for the CBA. The kid will command HUGE money, and it's moronic to commit that much money without knowing the rules going forward.

    With the (hopefully) new Rookie cap, I really do see us looking to build up through the draft. Possibly trading a playmaker like Allen for a first can be helpful IF the cap is in place. Getting a number of talented rookies for cheap can be helpful in getting us in a good financial position, while having depth and talent all around the roster. That extra money can go towards locking up guys like AP or Rice.
    Interesting.....

    Of course we are dealing with Bryzcheapski here so I can only say what I would do.......

    a. Shanc goes no were. Already proven that he can not only get into routes but he can block as well. Looks like the new scheme (if you can call it that) will use alot of "Multiple" TE sets. That means a increased work load on TE's not only from reps, but possible injuries as well.
    Agree to disagree. Not doubting the importance of a TE for a young QB, but we just spent a high pick on Rudolph, assuming he pans out, I can see us giving him an expanded role, meaning Shank might look elsewhere for a roster spot. Again, it might, or might nto happen.

    b. Sauce. See comments above. Besides, I have seen nothing to indicate that he has either dropped his blocking abilities or can't catch the ball when asked. Both he and Dugan made some defenses look real stupid when they caught the ball basically uncovered.
    No, his blocking is still pretty good, not really a threat at all as a receiver, seems he's only really used when they catch a defense off guard and he's wide open. He can't really run with the ball either. However, skill isn't an issue as much as age. Sauce is 34, and I think he's got another eyar or two left. How old do you think he's going to play. There comes a time when you are just done with football. You don't want to go through TC, practices, etc. when you're 35, especially if the team isn't on the cusp of winning a championship.
    c. EJ. I don't think he goes anywhere. He played almost to probowl levels last year with the femur. By all accounts he will be back 100% this year.
    30 years old, and really doesn't fit the scheme. I would not be surprised if he left.

    d. JA isn't going anywhere. Looks like Pagac wants to get faster on the DL. That means we need smart players. Letting a crafty vet go won't help anything. Keep JA and continue to add depth on the DL via the draft.
    I didn't mean specifically JA, but I could see trying to unload a player or two for picks.


    Of course, I am of the mind that we still have a damn good team that is going to continue to keep getting better. Only problem I see is that they now have to try to resign 2 years of core vets instead of one because of what they did last year.
    And that just might be an issue.

    We've got a bunch of players potentially leaving this season that we have not yet replaced. Now, granted we haven't had FA yet, but our holes aren't getting fixed, and we're creating all new ones.

    Our immediate future success really depends on Ponder. If he plays well, we do well. If he stinks it up, well, lets just say that the next few seasons won't be exceptionally exciting.

    We have the ability to turn into a 12-4 team just as much as we could be a 5-11 team.

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099453
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099449
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099434
    I see a few things happening in the next few years.


    1. Shank is gone. Good player, but getting older, and we have his replacement on roster
    2. EJ goes bye-bye. Older, slower, and that femur injury did slow him down a bit. He really doesn't fit our system, and is one of the last remaining parts of the Time scheme. He'll play out his contract, but I don't see him getting extended.
    3. Jimmy K retires after his contract ends. Dude was around when Denny coached the team. MAYBE he comes back for dirt cheap, but I think he'd probably rather go out quietly than play too long
    4. AD gets his contract. Just gotta wait for the CBA. The kid will command HUGE money, and it's moronic to commit that much money without knowing the rules going forward.

    With the (hopefully) new Rookie cap, I really do see us looking to build up through the draft. Possibly trading a playmaker like Allen for a first can be helpful IF the cap is in place. Getting a number of talented rookies for cheap can be helpful in getting us in a good financial position, while having depth and talent all around the roster. That extra money can go towards locking up guys like AP or Rice.
    Interesting.....

    Of course we are dealing with Bryzcheapski here so I can only say what I would do.......

    a. Shanc goes no were. Already proven that he can not only get into routes but he can block as well. Looks like the new scheme (if you can call it that) will use alot of "Multiple" TE sets. That means a increased work load on TE's not only from reps, but possible injuries as well.
    Agree to disagree. Not doubting the importance of a TE for a young QB, but we just spent a high pick on Rudolph, assuming he pans out, I can see us giving him an expanded role, meaning Shank might look elsewhere for a roster spot. Again, it might, or might nto happen.

    b. Sauce. See comments above. Besides, I have seen nothing to indicate that he has either dropped his blocking abilities or can't catch the ball when asked. Both he and Dugan made some defenses look real stupid when they caught the ball basically uncovered.
    No, his blocking is still pretty good, not really a threat at all as a receiver, seems he's only really used when they catch a defense off guard and he's wide open. He can't really run with the ball either. However, skill isn't an issue as much as age. Sauce is 34, and I think he's got another eyar or two left. How old do you think he's going to play. There comes a time when you are just done with football. You don't want to go through TC, practices, etc. when you're 35, especially if the team isn't on the cusp of winning a championship.
    c. EJ. I don't think he goes anywhere. He played almost to probowl levels last year with the femur. By all accounts he will be back 100% this year.
    30 years old, and really doesn't fit the scheme. I would not be surprised if he left.

    d. JA isn't going anywhere. Looks like Pagac wants to get faster on the DL. That means we need smart players. Letting a crafty vet go won't help anything. Keep JA and continue to add depth on the DL via the draft.
    I didn't mean specifically JA, but I could see trying to unload a player or two for picks.


    Of course, I am of the mind that we still have a damn good team that is going to continue to keep getting better. Only problem I see is that they now have to try to resign 2 years of core vets instead of one because of what they did last year.
    And that just might be an issue.

    We've got a bunch of players potentially leaving this season that we have not yet replaced. Now, granted we haven't had FA yet, but our holes aren't getting fixed, and we're creating all new ones.

    Our immediate future success really depends on Ponder. If he plays well, we do well. If he stinks it up, well, lets just say that the next few seasons won't be exceptionally exciting.

    We have the ability to turn into a 12-4 team just as much as we could be a 5-11 team.
    I hope Rudolph does pan out cause all the TE's roles are going to expand. That means we not only need good ones, but we need more of them.

    Pats are the prime example. Two damn fine TE's for Brady to work with that can block/seal and edge for the running back as well as get into a route matched up against a S or LB'r.

    Watch, I bet we see alot of 3 TE sets this year and quite possibly some 4 TE sets.
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  8. #18
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099455
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099453
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099449
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099434
    I see a few things happening in the next few years.


    1. Shank is gone. Good player, but getting older, and we have his replacement on roster
    2. EJ goes bye-bye. Older, slower, and that femur injury did slow him down a bit. He really doesn't fit our system, and is one of the last remaining parts of the Time scheme. He'll play out his contract, but I don't see him getting extended.
    3. Jimmy K retires after his contract ends. Dude was around when Denny coached the team. MAYBE he comes back for dirt cheap, but I think he'd probably rather go out quietly than play too long
    4. AD gets his contract. Just gotta wait for the CBA. The kid will command HUGE money, and it's moronic to commit that much money without knowing the rules going forward.

    With the (hopefully) new Rookie cap, I really do see us looking to build up through the draft. Possibly trading a playmaker like Allen for a first can be helpful IF the cap is in place. Getting a number of talented rookies for cheap can be helpful in getting us in a good financial position, while having depth and talent all around the roster. That extra money can go towards locking up guys like AP or Rice.
    Interesting.....

    Of course we are dealing with Bryzcheapski here so I can only say what I would do.......

    a. Shanc goes no were. Already proven that he can not only get into routes but he can block as well. Looks like the new scheme (if you can call it that) will use alot of "Multiple" TE sets. That means a increased work load on TE's not only from reps, but possible injuries as well.
    Agree to disagree. Not doubting the importance of a TE for a young QB, but we just spent a high pick on Rudolph, assuming he pans out, I can see us giving him an expanded role, meaning Shank might look elsewhere for a roster spot. Again, it might, or might nto happen.

    b. Sauce. See comments above. Besides, I have seen nothing to indicate that he has either dropped his blocking abilities or can't catch the ball when asked. Both he and Dugan made some defenses look real stupid when they caught the ball basically uncovered.
    No, his blocking is still pretty good, not really a threat at all as a receiver, seems he's only really used when they catch a defense off guard and he's wide open. He can't really run with the ball either. However, skill isn't an issue as much as age. Sauce is 34, and I think he's got another eyar or two left. How old do you think he's going to play. There comes a time when you are just done with football. You don't want to go through TC, practices, etc. when you're 35, especially if the team isn't on the cusp of winning a championship.
    c. EJ. I don't think he goes anywhere. He played almost to probowl levels last year with the femur. By all accounts he will be back 100% this year.
    30 years old, and really doesn't fit the scheme. I would not be surprised if he left.

    d. JA isn't going anywhere. Looks like Pagac wants to get faster on the DL. That means we need smart players. Letting a crafty vet go won't help anything. Keep JA and continue to add depth on the DL via the draft.
    I didn't mean specifically JA, but I could see trying to unload a player or two for picks.


    Of course, I am of the mind that we still have a damn good team that is going to continue to keep getting better. Only problem I see is that they now have to try to resign 2 years of core vets instead of one because of what they did last year.
    And that just might be an issue.

    We've got a bunch of players potentially leaving this season that we have not yet replaced. Now, granted we haven't had FA yet, but our holes aren't getting fixed, and we're creating all new ones.

    Our immediate future success really depends on Ponder. If he plays well, we do well. If he stinks it up, well, lets just say that the next few seasons won't be exceptionally exciting.

    We have the ability to turn into a 12-4 team just as much as we could be a 5-11 team.
    I hope Rudolph does pan out cause all the TE's roles are going to expand. That means we not only need good ones, but we need more of them.

    Pats are the prime example. Two damn fine TE's for Brady to work with that can block/seal and edge for the running back as well as get into a route matched up against a S or LB'r.

    Watch, I bet we see alot of 3 TE sets this year and quite possibly some 4 TE sets.
    Sure, because we have them on roster.

    But 3 years down the road, odds are good one or two of those TE's are no longer Vikings. LIke it or not, the cliche of "run the ball and stop the run" is really not accurate in todays league. You need to be able to pass effectively. Now yes, having a few TE's who can get out in routes is very valuable, but you need talented receivers and the ability to spread the ball around. That's simply how todays league is. More often than not it seems the effective passing teams can out-do the power rushing teams.

  9. #19
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099456
    Sure, because we have them on roster.

    But 3 years down the road, odds are good one or two of those TE's are no longer Vikings. LIke it or not, the cliche of "run the ball and stop the run" is really not accurate in todays league. You need to be able to pass effectively. Now yes, having a few TE's who can get out in routes is very valuable, but you need talented receivers and the ability to spread the ball around. That's simply how todays league is. More often than not it seems the effective passing teams can out-do the power rushing teams.
    Did you watch any of what the Pats did last year?

    It isn't about running or it isn't about passing. You have to have balance and the ability to exploit the other teams weakness. If they are great against the pass and can't stop the run, you surely aren't going to pass against them.

    Again, the stuff the Pats did last year really bares some scrutiny as I feel its what the rest of the "Copy Cat" league is going to start doing.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Is Sidney Rice Damaged Goods?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099597
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099456
    Sure, because we have them on roster.

    But 3 years down the road, odds are good one or two of those TE's are no longer Vikings. LIke it or not, the cliche of "run the ball and stop the run" is really not accurate in todays league. You need to be able to pass effectively. Now yes, having a few TE's who can get out in routes is very valuable, but you need talented receivers and the ability to spread the ball around. That's simply how todays league is. More often than not it seems the effective passing teams can out-do the power rushing teams.
    Did you watch any of what the Pats did last year?

    It isn't about running or it isn't about passing. You have to have balance and the ability to exploit the other teams weakness. If they are great against the pass and can't stop the run, you surely aren't going to pass against them.

    Again, the stuff the Pats did last year really bares some scrutiny as I feel its what the rest of the "Copy Cat" league is going to start doing.
    Ok, lets say we keep 3 good TE's as you think we should. Where do we draw that cap space from?

    Shank will command some good money. Not sure what Rudolph will get, but he should be manageable for about 3 years as a second rounder.

    Now look at the Pats. Gronkowski, Hernandez and Crumpler. Gronkowski was a 2nd rounder, Hernandez was a 4th. Neither really command big money. Crumpler being the Vet, probably has the biggest contract with 2.4 mil. However, Crumpler isn't really much of a receiver anymore, mostly used as a blocker.

    You can bet when the time comes to renew Gronkowski and Hernandez, they'll think hard about whether they command the big dollars, or they try and get another talented youngster.

    One thing the Pats don't do is keep players too long if they command too much money unless they NEED them.

    Brady, they need. Welker, they need. TE's are expendable. As are Runningbacks. I expect them to lock up McCourtey for a long time, but I could see some other decent players leaving th Pats in the near future. That's just how they operate.

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