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  1. #1
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Sick of cover 2?

    Sorry to be the pessimist of all things, but our problems need to be addressed. Is it just me or about 75% of the time we drop into a cover 2 or cover 4? The play calling is getting too predictable to me and I really think leslie frazier needs to address his conservative approach to every game or else his job will be in jeopardy. Yes I will say that we do have the best D-Line in the league, but can you expect them to get pressure every play? Our defense has been solid all year, but gets KILLED by the big play. It takes one big play to score and now a days you just can't depend on whinny or griffin to hold a WR down for 4-5 seconds if our D-line just ain't getting in (I will defend our D-Line observing that most games, teams leave 6-7 players to block/double team J.A.). Our corners are on the slow side but aggressive and physical. They just aren't pure cover corners and can't hang with speed. I always see the vikings doing the press bail coverage. Why not bump receivers besides creating a bigger mismatch than there already is. Let's face it, the tackling hasn't been there this year, and this cover 2 scheme that requires solid tackling and giving the dinks and dunks in order minimize the big play just isn't going to cut it. Even so if we have the best D-Line in the league, when your getting out numbered six to four or seven to four, WRs are going to burn our secondary all day long with the extra time. Teams with big play threats and good passing attacks like arizona, philadelphia, new orleans, and dallas who we will most likely see in the playoffs will torch our corners. We need to apply quick pressure to these teams and be the physical team we are on the line with the recievers and tight ends. Blitz more guys who can come at the quarterback freely or reduce the pressure on J.A. and K.W. allowing them to use one move on a lineman and get after the quarterback. You know that with J.A. there is going to be a RB and TE helping to block or chip him. Start bringing guys from Ray Edwards side, these guys are going to come in untouched forcing teams to anticipate blitzes on future plays from either side. Blitzing and disguising plays is something we need to do in the playoffs to shut out these big teams. I wanted to know what you guys think of my opinion and whether you agree or not. Feel free to express yourselves.
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  2. #2
    Suick's Avatar
    Suick is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    I've hated the cover [strike]2[/strike] who since we started using it.
    I've been a Viking fan since I was just out of diapers, hopefully we get Super Bowl win before I go back in 'em.

  3. #3
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    I agree... now a days you gotta be able to pass defend. Teams are evolving in pass happy teams... we kind of have as well this year (most likely because of favre.) The best defenses in the league are either 3-4 or aggressive blitzing teams like saints (with greer and porter healthy) and Cincinnati. I don't think there a 3-4 defense in the league lower than I believe 18. It seems to be the way to go now.
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  4. #4
    Formo's Avatar
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    lol @ the hate of the cover 2.. It's what brought our defense from a sieve that allowed teams to run and pass their way through us like a hot knife through butter to the force that has been respected the past 4 years.

    I think we need more creativity with our defense.. But to abandon it completely? No effing way.

    I say bring guys right behind Allen when we blitz. He's gonna command the majority of the attention, so whomever is blitzing behind him should get a free ride to the ball carrier. I don't like our safety play.. Not all that sure it's the talent, but the scheme. I'm a fan of letting one safety play deep ball and keeping the offense infront of him and everyone else play their zone/man. But that's just me.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  5. #5
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    You know I completely agree with you... we had a great safety in sharper for so long. He didn't fit that cover 2 scheme and couldn't roam around like he does with the saints. With aggression like that, he could be having a 10 pic season with us... along w/ a couple of those TD's I say new D coordinator. most likely won't happen if we reach the playoffs though
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  6. #6
    Holmstrom is offline Rookie
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    I don't how we can't play cover two. With the way our corners can't cover shit, they will be beat deep every time if they don't have two deep safties. We are just going to find ways to mix up the blitzing scheme under the cover 2 and get pressure on the QB.
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  7. #7
    Formo's Avatar
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    Holmstrom wrote:
    I don't how we can't play cover two. With the way our corners can't cover shit, they will be beat deep every time if they don't have two deep safties. We are just going to find ways to mix up the blitzing scheme under the cover 2 and get pressure on the QB.
    The problem is there's no jamming at the line of scrimmage, especially when we don't go into a cover 2 defense (i.e. the OT TD against Winny). If you aren't going to have a safety over the top of each CB, at LEAST jam the WRs at the LOS. We don't ever play that way. BTW, typically we have our CBs 5-10 yards off their WR, but not on that play.. Winfield was within 5 yards of his guy. That's just asking for trouble.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  8. #8
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    b_sandhar_29 wrote:
    Sorry to be the pessimist of all things, but our problems need to be addressed.
    6 posts.....How did I miss your first five. Definately a great idea for a thread. This gets you bumped a column or two on the ole spreadsheet my friend.......

    Couple of comments/discussions points though......

    Is it just me or about 75% of the time we drop into a cover 2 or cover 4?
    I actually think Leslie has been getting a bit more press out of his CB's, atleast he was prior to Whinny coming back. I kindof got on his bandwagon a bit (I really was hard on him for awhile last year) because of how he uses Griff on thier best WR.

    Watch closely and you will see that Griff and Whinny switch sides at times and in some instances, you will see Griff and Whinny on the same side.

    That my friend cannot be considered a cover 2 scheme.

    The play calling is getting too predictable to me and I really think leslie frazier needs to address his conservative approach to every game or else his job will be in jeopardy.
    I'm not so sure I consider his play calling bad. That Stunt/S blitz that M-will/Rob did was a thing of beauty considering how they dropped JA into the void.

    I would have to say that I think we show our blitz way to early. This allows the QB time to check out of a play as well as thier OL to adjust to it.

    Case in point, almost the whole first half, the Bores had our Offense confused as to were the Blitz was coming from because of how late they actually showed it. Same thing happened in the Panthers and Cards game.

    Yes I will say that we do have the best D-Line in the league, but can you expect them to get pressure every play? Our defense has been solid all year, but gets KILLED by the big play. It takes one big play to score and now a days you just can't depend on whinny or griffin to hold a WR down for 4-5 seconds if our D-line just ain't getting in (I will defend our D-Line observing that most games, teams leave 6-7 players to block/double team J.A.).
    I am not so sure we do have the best DL in the league. I am almost starting to think that at least Kevin was juicing. Only reason I can explain for the huge drop off in his play.

    Phat Pat can still ball, but he really needs to take alot of reps off. That severly impacts what the OL can do with respect to protecting (doubling) against the other DLmen.

    I will say that this is the area I think Leslie is at his weakest. For the life of me I don't know why he can't figure out how to rotate guys in based on situations. I don't think we've seen 4 DE's in on 3rd and forevers. If we have, it hasn't been very often.

    Which brings me to your "Big Play" point. In most cases the big play takes time to develop and is usually a direct result of the QB having the time to watch it develop and pick his spot when to hit the reciever. Long story short, put some pressure on his ass, make him move, and he can't make the big play.

    Our corners are on the slow side but aggressive and physical. They just aren't pure cover corners and can't hang with speed. I always see the vikings doing the press bail coverage. Why not bump receivers besides creating a bigger mismatch than there already is.
    See my comment above. In addition to that, I think we have the type of corners that the scheme calls for. Lets face it, there just aren't alot of cover/shutdown corners running around out there.

    As to being physical. Griff can be physical if the coaches tell him to, as he showed in the Bores game this weekend.


    Let's face it, the tackling hasn't been there this year, and this cover 2 scheme that requires solid tackling and giving the dinks and dunks in order minimize the big play just isn't going to cut it.
    \
    This is were I think you really hit the nail on the head. Our defense is designed to keep the ball in front of you and make the tackle. Everyone (and not just one S) is missing tackles.

    For this I am on Leslies ass again. I for one hope the Chiller decides to go in another direction this year for his D-coord. If he isn't smart enough to do that, I hope the FO makes him or some team gets real stupid and hires Leslie away from us.


    Even so if we have the best D-Line in the league, when your getting out numbered six to four or seven to four, WRs are going to burn our secondary all day long with the extra time. Teams with big play threats and good passing attacks like arizona, philadelphia, new orleans, and dallas who we will most likely see in the playoffs will torch our corners. We need to apply quick pressure to these teams and be the physical team we are on the line with the recievers and tight ends.
    Another solid point. I really don't like the matchups we are gonna have to face in the playoffs.

    Blitz more guys who can come at the quarterback freely or reduce the pressure on J.A. and K.W. allowing them to use one move on a lineman and get after the quarterback.
    I disagree with you here a bit. I think blitzing is the key to success, but not more of it. I think they need to pick the right time to blitz and they need to disguise it better.

    Rationale, again goes back to the scheme. When you take a LB or a S out of the pass cover, you open a whole in the zones that someone has to cover in addition to his normal zone.

    In short, blitzing in a Cover 2 is a bad thing, as we saw in the Bores game.

    You know that with J.A. there is going to be a RB and TE helping to block or chip him. Start bringing guys from Ray Edwards side, these guys are going to come in untouched forcing teams to anticipate blitzes on future plays from either side. Blitzing and disguising plays is something we need to do in the playoffs to shut out these big teams. I wanted to know what you guys think of my opinion and whether you agree or not.
    Truth be told, if they are going to keep a TE or a RB or both in to help, it should help our DB's as that in turn limits how many recievers are in thier zones.

    Do they get to the QB quickly if chipped? Premier DE's do, not sure why JA can't.

    Feel free to express yourselves.
    Again, a excellent post and a great idea for a thread. I hope we get some good discussions going.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #9
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    Formo wrote:
    Holmstrom wrote:
    I don't how we can't play cover two. With the way our corners can't cover shit, they will be beat deep every time if they don't have two deep safties. We are just going to find ways to mix up the blitzing scheme under the cover 2 and get pressure on the QB.
    The problem is there's no jamming at the line of scrimmage, especially when we don't go into a cover 2 defense (i.e. the OT TD against Winny). If you aren't going to have a safety over the top of each CB, at LEAST jam the WRs at the LOS. We don't ever play that way. BTW, typically we have our CBs 5-10 yards off their WR, but not on that play.. Winfield was within 5 yards of his guy. That's just asking for trouble.
    I kindof disagree with you a bit here. Not so much since Whinny has been back, but the CB's have been a bit more agressive this year. Hell, Griff presses (at least shows it) on alot more plays than he is off.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Sick of cover 2?

    b_sandhar_29 wrote:
    You know I completely agree with you... we had a great safety in sharper for so long. He didn't fit that cover 2 scheme and couldn't roam around like he does with the saints. With aggression like that, he could be having a 10 pic season with us... along w/ a couple of those TD's I say new D coordinator. most likely won't happen if we reach the playoffs though
    Everytime Sharps name comes up, I want to pose the following question........

    How many INT's did he get for us in 2008?

    There were a few of us on here who believed he had lost a step or two. Guess we were wrong and it was the scheme all the time.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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