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Thread: Shit can JA!

  1. #31
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital420 View Post
    I think many believe that JA should be getting 5 sacks a game.. not gonna happen..
    QB's are more mobile
    Routes and plays are now designed to help stop DE's from doing what they do
    Ref's are always going to protect a QB

    has JA lived up to his standard? he did a lot of things right, deflecting passes, getting into the backfield.. he does tend to put himself out of plays that go his way as he's trying to bullrush past the T.. but that means those behind him need to recognize this and be prepared.

    I don't think he's slowing down, nor do i believe he'll be preaching a trade me.. not yet. JA, BR, Kdub, +1 i think is still getting their own. we need a 0 tech.. a reliable one that can plug the middle and get in the qb's face. the bigger question is.. when this team is ready to be a contender.. will we have value in these positions?

    JA should NOT be shit canned.. trade? for a 1+2 rounder? that's tempting.. esp in the rebuilding stage we're in. imagin having a top 5 pick, another top 20 pick.. and 2 2nd rounder picks? if we wait a year maybe we get 1+3 or 2+3+4 but i just don't see it happening this year. we NEED him.. we need his leadership.. his work ethic.. his presence..

    DiGiTaL
    Solid post my friend. Loved your other post (break down of the game).

    Quick question though, what has his leadership and work ethic got us this year? Wouldn't you rather see a couple to three other young starters learning with the rest of the youngsters. Maturing together?

    If we keep JA for the next two year (and pay him his 25+) and then he leaves, we will then have a defense that is 2 years older than the guys who would/will replace him.

    The follow-on discussion to that is we might already have his replacement, but those cats would then need to be resigned by then so they might leave for more bucks kindof discussion train.

    In the end, I think your right. We will keep him and we will find out that he can still get to the QB after the real reason figures out what they are doing wrong.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdesertvike View Post
    Jared is one of my favorite players...but I am, always have been, and always will be, a TEAM-FIRST fan. With having said that, if we can get equal trade value for him, do it in a heartbeat.

    My biggest gripe with our Defense is a coaching issue. It doesn't seem like they're at all interested getting turnovers, whether it's the Line OR the Secondary. When our guys have clear shots at the ball carriers, I hardly ever see them trying to strip it, and as for our D-backs, our last "ballhawk" secondary was back in the Green era.

    These coaches and their schemes are soft...that's why we're at the bottom, and why we'll stay there until they're gone.
    Excellent post my friend. You just moved up a notch or two on a couple of the old spreadsheets.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    We didn't lose games at the end of the game with them regardless of were the secondardy (pass defense) was ranked).
    Really? I believe I can pull up my last second loss spreadsheet and come up with enough to counter your point. Right off the top of my head there was this season opener against Indy where we led the majority of the game but got burned in the last quarter or so by the pass and ended up losing as time ran out.


    Sure, we didn't see all the INT's most on here crave, but thats ok. Just as long as the D held up their end, and they did.
    They held up your end but not all fans ends. IMHO INT's are crucial because they end drives, take away points, and give our offense more opportunity to score or at least win the field position battle. That field position battle is key and it has cost us plenty of games.

    Now we are seeing 100 yard rushers, the likes of Whinny getting beat for 60 + yarders and long drives in very little time that cost us games. That didn't happen with that group and they still had the sack totals and alot more (alot more) pressures. Remember how I used to put those numbers up for Ray all the time?
    Yeah, the rush defense is worse but that doesn't make the secondary play better, it just means we now have a new problem that needs to be addressed.

  4. #34
    Reignman is offline Asst. Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingpin9995 View Post
    That is the NFL today. Bend but don't break is what most all the teams do in the NFL today. With the rule changes favoring offenses it is nearly impossible to cover today. It's no secret it's a passing league and teams are taking advantage. All the teams today let the play develop in front of them and give up short passes. I't's all they can do.
    Unfortunately for us, the Vikings are the only team that didn't get the memo. Our offense is stuck in the 70's. Not only are we still trying to pound the ball, but we're trying to do it against 8 man fronts. Too bad it wasn't our defense that was still stuck in the 70's.

    But no, hang on to JA, he's the only thing worth watching on defense.

  5. #35
    thorshammer is offline Asst. Coach
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    I can't even believe people following this team are saying get rid of JA. Seriously?????

  6. #36
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    The part about getting rid of him was a bit of poking fun. But we have to look at the long term too. His contract is up next year if I am not mistaken and we have to look at whether at his age he will even sign with us again or if he will look to sign with a contender to try to win a SB before he retires.

    If it comes down to trading him now and getting some solid picks or keeping him this year and having him leave when his contract expires with us getting nothing in return which would you prefer?

  7. #37
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    I like Jared Allen. He brings a swagger to the team that we sorely need - and certainly don't deserve. He gives us something to look forward to - the possibility that he will "get his" while the rest of the team wallows in mediocrity (or worse).

    ...with that in mind, I think our BEST option would be to trade him.

    His value is high, and we need the picks to rebuild...DESPERATELY.

    Problem there is, do we trust the guys drafting/coaching to make good use of the opportunity of presented?

    So, on one hand, we keep JA, and he goes the way of Kevin Williams - high priced place holder who used to be good...

    ...or we trade him, get solid value, and Frazier & Company blow the picks or fail to coach them properly.

    It's a crap shoot.

    Caine

  8. #38
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    Nothing to see hear folks, move along.
    Everyone knows that Marr loves the underdog. He prefers to pull for the unknown, unproven in favor of the star player. Trading JA would be stupid. Sometimes a players presence helps to affect the way a defense gameplans for you. The other teams never knows if we will get JA from last week or 4 sack JA. Imagine how poor or team would be without JA.

    The tampa 2 has been beaten. Teams are running from it. Our LBs cannot cover or play it. Erin got beat twice and you think its the 1 DE that we have that should be moved. Thinking like that is why teams like the Browns never, ever get better. They are always chasing the next young hidden talent instead of believing in their eyes and stats. You don't trade a 22 sack artist that is not even 30.

  9. #39
    digital420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Solid post my friend. Loved your other post (break down of the game).

    Quick question though, what has his leadership and work ethic got us this year? Wouldn't you rather see a couple to three other young starters learning with the rest of the youngsters. Maturing together?

    If we keep JA for the next two year (and pay him his 25+) and then he leaves, we will then have a defense that is 2 years older than the guys who would/will replace him.

    The follow-on discussion to that is we might already have his replacement, but those cats would then need to be resigned by then so they might leave for more bucks kindof discussion train.

    In the end, I think your right. We will keep him and we will find out that he can still get to the QB after the real reason figures out what they are doing wrong.
    I agree it's a heavy price tag for a below avg team looking at maybe 2 years more of JA

    Quick answers..
    - Leadership.. i can't remember where i read it.. but several players have mentioned the drive and work ethic JA has.. many are mentioned.. AD, PH to name a few.. but lets just take our DE's.. who better for them to see, learn from, and have that drive instilled in them to be the best.. push harder and harder.. I would take this any day over a.. headcase ego filled star who thinks everyone should worship him for his skillz..

    Just the way JA handeled some of the pre-season bs.. how will MK stand up to JA.. who will win.. how many times will JA hand Matty his arse.. what was Jared's take.. "Why should I try to learn to beat him, do I ever play him? I want to work together, both of us Grow, Learn, and improve our Technique, and the system we're working in" This goes a LOONG way toward the TEAM first mentality.. and the more STARS of the NFL that shove this into the heads of the up and comers.. the better for us.

    right so JA gets lets sa 25 sacks.. breaks the record.. we go 6-10.. in the end it means nothing for us.. maybe a win here or there.. we see the value of him, other teams drool on the value of him.. I would be sad to watch a trade happen. but I'd also know that.. JA will get a shot with a team that IS a contender, they get a piece of the puzzle that they need to be more then a contender.. and we get.. 3 pics? maybe mix of pics/development players.. it's mute to try and say lets trade him now.. that window shut.. you need an offseason to work with your linemates.. learn your system.. the blitzes, slants, and the fine tuning of a solid D line.. IF this is a possible scenario.. i believe it will be at the end of the year.. but what did we gain?

    1. his experience in the film room.. BR, Griffen and whatever cats we have learn from one of the best all year

    2. the D gets that little extra umph that JA brings this year to help them grow

    3. Our Dline coach, D cord.. and coaches in general.. hopefully learn a bit.. as.. everyone can learn from the best player in that position.

    4. we get to CHEER as JA slams Rodgers around.. (thats kinda worth it all anyways) at least for one more year.

    ; )


    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorshammer View Post
    I can't even believe people following this team are saying get rid of JA. Seriously?????
    I love JA and his intensity but a couple of issues make him a great player to trade.

    1. He is one of the best DEs and we will get good market value for him.

    2. He is getting up there and he will be slowing down, similar to KW. We should trade him when he is worth the most and that would be after this year.

    3. He will be a free agent after next year so if we don't trade him this year we won't be able to because he will become a free agent.

    4. That leaves us in a conunrum do we keep him and sign him next year, he is an aging star, do we let him go via free agency or place a franchise tag on him.

    Many issues to hash out, my take is I say trade him at the end of the season if we get a great offer.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

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