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Thread: Shit can JA!

  1. #21
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    We should be more constructive, I agree. The bickering while funny at times does seem to lend a stubborness to ceretain people.
    Does not.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I will go with you 100% on the WR's, but I'm not buying into the DB's quite yet. Lets let them grow a bit before we actually say they aren't going to cut it in this league.

    As to the DL as a whole, please explain to me how two young QB's, with very few weapons to throw to put up record numbers in passing.

    A close look at the Colts the week before that the C2 defense picked him apart and made him look like, well, a rookie.

    Jags this week only put up something like 120 yards. Gabbert (who looked like a pro last week) was hurrying throws, missing wide open receivers (that means a DB wasn't even on them).

    Again, we can keep on chanting, draft DB's high (which we done alot lately) or we can realize our DL, even though a couple have big recognizable names just flat out aren't getting it done.
    it wasn't that long ago that we had a DL consisting of
    Jared Allen
    Kevin Williams
    Pat Williams
    Ray Edwards.

    That was a pretty darn solid line my friend and you know what? Though we did have the number 1 run defense, we had a bottom third pass defense because we had crappy corners and safeties.Sent Sharper to NO and had nothing to replace him with.

    So tell me- since we had a great DL for a period of time where were the INT's, the gain in pass defense and the problems for opposing QB's that should clearly be there based on your theory that the DT and Dline are where everything starts in the c2?

    I will follow that with Detroit, who have your war pigs and also above average DE's and yet they got lit up in both games this year by the QB's they faced. How many INT's does Detroit have and what kind of pass defense ranking do they have with their war pigs in the middle?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Does not.
    Does too, na na na boo boo

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  4. #24
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    We don't play coverage on the backend, we play zone and he got those 22 sacks with worse DB's last year than we have now.

    By the way, did you see when/were he got those 22 sacks last year. They came in large groups against a couple of teams. Last year we watched him get beat by a single T alot and was shut out of games when he shouldn't have.

    First, it was more than a couple of teams. Second, all sacks tend to come in groups. That is the nature of life, things come in streaks. Third, all DL get beat more than they win...even the best of the best, otherwise the sack record would be like 150 or so.

    No matter how you want to spin it, 22 sacks in one year (let alone on a 3-13 team) is a phenomenal year!

    This year, well, he's only played 2 games, but teams have come our right away singling him up allowing the extra blocker to work other players and its worked.
    First, it was more than a couple of teams. Second, all sacks tend to come in groups. That is the nature of life, things come in streaks. Third, all DL get beat more than they win...even the best of the best, otherwise the sack record would be like 150 or so.

    No matter how you want to spin it, 22 sacks in one year (let alone on a 3-13 team) is a phenomenal year!!!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazz View Post
    First, it was more than a couple of teams. Second, all sacks tend to come in groups. That is the nature of life, things come in streaks. Third, all DL get beat more than they win...even the best of the best, otherwise the sack record would be like 150 or so.

    No matter how you want to spin it, 22 sacks in one year (let alone on a 3-13 team) is a phenomenal year!!!
    No one, me especially, is saying otherwise, but there is more to the game (in this scheme) than sacks.

    Watch him play. He is almost always out of the play (taken wide), misses tackles and isn't even getting close to putting pressure.

    It started to show alot last year and its just carrying over into this year. He is not the dominant player he used to be.

    Now it could be attributed to what I've been saying is the issue all along (poor DT play), but one would have thought that the poor DT play would have been negated last week by the crappy OL they faced but it wasn't. So then the next place to look is the play calling. That could almost account for him rushing the QB on running plays (not in the play) type of stuff but I'm not allowed to go there until week 6 so I can't go there.

    Until then, our DL (not just JARED) is atrocious and the 22 sacks last year everyone keeps hanging on means squat cause its this years play that I'm talking about.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    it wasn't that long ago that we had a DL consisting of
    Jared Allen
    Kevin Williams
    Pat Williams
    Ray Edwards.

    That was a pretty darn solid line my friend and you know what? Though we did have the number 1 run defense, we had a bottom third pass defense because we had crappy corners and safeties.Sent Sharper to NO and had nothing to replace him with.

    So tell me- since we had a great DL for a period of time where were the INT's, the gain in pass defense and the problems for opposing QB's that should clearly be there based on your theory that the DT and Dline are where everything starts in the c2?

    I will follow that with Detroit, who have your war pigs and also above average DE's and yet they got lit up in both games this year by the QB's they faced. How many INT's does Detroit have and what kind of pass defense ranking do they have with their war pigs in the middle?
    We didn't lose games at the end of the game with them regardless of were the secondardy (pass defense) was ranked).

    Sure, we didn't see all the INT's most on here crave, but thats ok. Just as long as the D held up their end, and they did.

    Now we are seeing 100 yard rushers, the likes of Whinny getting beat for 60 + yarders and long drives in very little time that cost us games. That didn't happen with that group and they still had the sack totals and alot more (alot more) pressures. Remember how I used to put those numbers up for Ray all the time?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I think we should trade JA if we get the right price. He is a high energy guy and that is how he gets his sacks. He is not going ot be elite LT and that is the problem. If we get a first round and third or a high second and third I would trade him.
    The energy point needs to be watched.

    Remember, he wasn't to fond of the "Rotation" that the new D-coord mentioned early in spring training. Maybe he isn't happy. I think he has something like 11 Million reasons to be happy so I'm not sure if that's it.

    Until something better comes along, I'm gonna go with the "He has lost it" assumption, at least until week 6. Then I will lay something that makes alot more sense out....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    I'm not taking sides here...but, is this really a productive platform for a thread?
    LOL, thanks old friend. Steve knows I've never been one to support a theory just because the masses agree with it.

    As I said previously, he's just frustrated, we all are.

    Hopefully the coaches will figure something out, JA will start getting sacks and he will calm down.

    (On a side note, still won't alleviate the fact that the scheme won't work without the right players.....)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    highdesertvike is offline Training Camp
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    Jared is one of my favorite players...but I am, always have been, and always will be, a TEAM-FIRST fan. With having said that, if we can get equal trade value for him, do it in a heartbeat.

    My biggest gripe with our Defense is a coaching issue. It doesn't seem like they're at all interested getting turnovers, whether it's the Line OR the Secondary. When our guys have clear shots at the ball carriers, I hardly ever see them trying to strip it, and as for our D-backs, our last "ballhawk" secondary was back in the Green era.

    These coaches and their schemes are soft...that's why we're at the bottom, and why we'll stay there until they're gone.
    An ugly win is better than a pretty loss.

  10. #30
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    I think many believe that JA should be getting 5 sacks a game.. not gonna happen..
    QB's are more mobile
    Routes and plays are now designed to help stop DE's from doing what they do
    Ref's are always going to protect a QB

    has JA lived up to his standard? he did a lot of things right, deflecting passes, getting into the backfield.. he does tend to put himself out of plays that go his way as he's trying to bullrush past the T.. but that means those behind him need to recognize this and be prepared.

    I don't think he's slowing down, nor do i believe he'll be preaching a trade me.. not yet. JA, BR, Kdub, +1 i think is still getting their own. we need a 0 tech.. a reliable one that can plug the middle and get in the qb's face. the bigger question is.. when this team is ready to be a contender.. will we have value in these positions?

    JA should NOT be shit canned.. trade? for a 1+2 rounder? that's tempting.. esp in the rebuilding stage we're in. imagin having a top 5 pick, another top 20 pick.. and 2 2nd rounder picks? if we wait a year maybe we get 1+3 or 2+3+4 but i just don't see it happening this year. we NEED him.. we need his leadership.. his work ethic.. his presence..

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

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