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  1. #21
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.

    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.

    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.

  2. #22
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine

  3. #23
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.

    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.

    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    I'm not missing anything. It seems you are missing the point(s) about slavery. My point has been and continues to be the players (Slaves) have a choice to leave if they don't like what's going on. They also get paid very nicely for their "slavery". You call me ignorant yet you keep showing your ignorance by posting these ridiculous posts and changing things every time.

    I've said my piece at this point. I am no longer going to hash this out with you because it seems you are way out of touch with reality. So go ahead and continue to agree with the players who continue to put their foot in their mouth. It must taste real good to them.

  4. #24
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.

  5. #25
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.
    Regardless of what the owners want the point here is they are the owners. That entitles them to pay or not pay whatever they want as long as they abide by the laws which I don't know anyone in the NFL making less than minimum wage.

    The owners are the ones that invested in the organization. Not the players, coaches, trainers, etc... That gives them the right to pay what they believe players are worth. If they want to cut revenue sharing it is their option to do so.

  6. #26
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    The fact is they need each other. The owners need these athletes in order to convince the fans and communities they are based in that they are worth the ungodly sums of money that are thrown their way and the players need the owners to market them as having the ungodly value that they are commanding to do what they do.

    One really cannot survive without the other at the level they are both being compensated and for them the only chance they have is to find a mutual agreement on splitting the incredible sums of money that their brand has allowed them to generate.

  7. #27
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1092252
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.
    Regardless of what the owners want the point here is they are the owners. That entitles them to pay or not pay whatever they want as long as they abide by the laws which I don't know anyone in the NFL making less than minimum wage.

    The owners are the ones that invested in the organization. Not the players, coaches, trainers, etc... That gives them the right to pay what they believe players are worth. If they want to cut revenue sharing it is their option to do so.
    That does start to bring up some issues like monopoly or collusion, salary caps and team revenue sharing and the draft don't really fall in with the general labor standards but were agreed to by the union and owners. Lots of these things tend to protect the owners from themselves and not the players as much. If the owners had to rely on ther own gate and there share of TV contracts but were having to sign players in a true open market without a cap or draft there would be what about 5 or 6 teams going nuts like say Raiders, Redskins, Cowboys, Patriots maybe a couple of others and the Jags, Bills, Browns would probably crumble in a true free open market.

  8. #28
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092255
    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1092252
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.
    Regardless of what the owners want the point here is they are the owners. That entitles them to pay or not pay whatever they want as long as they abide by the laws which I don't know anyone in the NFL making less than minimum wage.

    The owners are the ones that invested in the organization. Not the players, coaches, trainers, etc... That gives them the right to pay what they believe players are worth. If they want to cut revenue sharing it is their option to do so.
    That does start to bring up some issues like monopoly or collusion, salary caps and team revenue sharing and the draft don't really fall in with the general labor standards but were agreed to by the union and owners. Lots of these things tend to protect the owners from themselves and not the players as much. If the owners had to rely on ther own gate and there share of TV contracts but were having to sign players in a true open market without a cap or draft there would be what about 5 or 6 teams going nuts like say Raiders, Redskins, Cowboys, Patriots maybe a couple of others and the Jags, Bills, Browns would probably crumble in a true free open market.
    +1
    The owners gave up some of there rights in order allow there monopoly

  9. #29
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1092256
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092255
    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1092252
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.
    Regardless of what the owners want the point here is they are the owners. That entitles them to pay or not pay whatever they want as long as they abide by the laws which I don't know anyone in the NFL making less than minimum wage.

    The owners are the ones that invested in the organization. Not the players, coaches, trainers, etc... That gives them the right to pay what they believe players are worth. If they want to cut revenue sharing it is their option to do so.
    That does start to bring up some issues like monopoly or collusion, salary caps and team revenue sharing and the draft don't really fall in with the general labor standards but were agreed to by the union and owners. Lots of these things tend to protect the owners from themselves and not the players as much. If the owners had to rely on ther own gate and there share of TV contracts but were having to sign players in a true open market without a cap or draft there would be what about 5 or 6 teams going nuts like say Raiders, Redskins, Cowboys, Patriots maybe a couple of others and the Jags, Bills, Browns would probably crumble in a true free open market.
    +1
    The owners gave up some of there rights in order allow there monopoly
    Yes I can agree here too. I also agree with PF in that they both need each other to survive. The point I am trying to make to Kevincox is that each side have choices. Therefore when he backs up the slavery statements with hogwash about Roman Gladiators it is way out of touch with reality and what is happening right now with the NFL labor disputes.

  10. #30
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1092257
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1092256
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092255
    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1092252
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1092251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092247
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    You seem to miss the point about slavery. Do you think the American institution of slavery was the same as the one that Hebrews endured under Eygpt? What about the Roman system of slavery?My point in raising it is that like most of the American public that assumed AD is stupid for making the comment, you prove your ignorance by not considering what type of slavery he was talking about. In some cases slavery =/= slavery.
    I disagree. You don't get to redefine what he MEANT after the fact. That's a Marrdro stunt, and it never works for him, either...

    Peterson simply said it was like slavery...he didn't delve into various forms of slavery. Hell, there's sexual slavery too...maybe that's what he meant? Does he have to put out for Zygi on alternate Friday nights?

    But that's not the point. The POINT is that he made a polarizing statement, then his agent told us not to read into it....

    ...how can we NOT?

    The situation in the NFL is NOTHING like slavery of ANY form because at any time the players can choose to LEAVE. No other "Slave" could do that. The players are not chattel...as ALL other forms of slavery are.
    So, NO, in fact, this is NOTHING like slavery, and any attempt to draw a positive comparison is silly and misguided.

    And, fwiw, Roman Gladiators were not "Rich"...they were slaves...their OWNERS got rich off of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    I would also like to point out that owners do not have the right to choose to pay a player what they feel like. If they did....why are we locked out. Owners must provide an offer to the player's union and have it agreed upon. I think researching how unions work and their place in American history. In case you don't know, Unions can and have request to look at ledger books in the past. It's not unheard of.
    Owners could, and did, offer players anything they wanted. That's why there are individual agents for every player. The Players do not negotiate a "One size pays all" contract that most unions do.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092237
    My issues is again is with people talking about what they deserve. Who freaking cares? Players are trying to articulate why they deserve the surplus of funds more than the owners. Funny, when the owners make a statement about increased cost of and why they should have the money...no one says anything. However, a player points out that they only last in the game 3.5years while owners can continue to see profits well into their 90s. Teams are seeing RECORD.....RECORD PROFITS...thats Profits as after cost, expenses, salary etc. It nothing but greed.
    When I worked for Lear, I was a member of the UAW. When we recorded record profits, we received NO added compensation. Our CEO made 5 million per year...we got nothing.

    WE did all the work. WE made all the product. HE got all the money.

    The same was true of General Motors during the mid-2000's when THEY were hauling in record profits. The OWNERS get the money, the workers get what they get...

    And guess who had the higher incidence of injury?

    At Lear, we had the highest work-comp rate in the City because the jobs were so damaging...

    So, again, let's not talk about what they DESERVE...they already get MILLIONS...

    Caine
    Isn't part of the issue though that the players aren't asking for an increase but the owners want a rollback, the owners canselled the old CBA which had a 60-40 split with the players and last years uncapped season moved it to a 50-50 split and now the owners want a 40-60 with the players which is the 20% rollback from 2 years ago that the players are disputing and want to see the financials before taking a rollback. So the owners locked them out.
    Regardless of what the owners want the point here is they are the owners. That entitles them to pay or not pay whatever they want as long as they abide by the laws which I don't know anyone in the NFL making less than minimum wage.

    The owners are the ones that invested in the organization. Not the players, coaches, trainers, etc... That gives them the right to pay what they believe players are worth. If they want to cut revenue sharing it is their option to do so.
    That does start to bring up some issues like monopoly or collusion, salary caps and team revenue sharing and the draft don't really fall in with the general labor standards but were agreed to by the union and owners. Lots of these things tend to protect the owners from themselves and not the players as much. If the owners had to rely on ther own gate and there share of TV contracts but were having to sign players in a true open market without a cap or draft there would be what about 5 or 6 teams going nuts like say Raiders, Redskins, Cowboys, Patriots maybe a couple of others and the Jags, Bills, Browns would probably crumble in a true free open market.
    +1
    The owners gave up some of there rights in order allow there monopoly
    Yes I can agree here too. I also agree with PF in that they both need each other to survive. The point I am trying to make to Kevincox is that each side have choices. Therefore when he backs up the slavery statements with hogwash about Roman Gladiators it is way out of touch with reality and what is happening right now with the NFL labor disputes.
    Yeah I'll agree with those being grossly exaggerate over statements. And I also believe that both sides owners/players are damaging a good thing they both had going, the NFL is the strongest of the athelic entertainment brands out there and they are starting to damage it and opening the door for fans as consumers to start looking else where to spend there entertainment dollars and they both need to look at where some of the other leagues have gone or are going like the NBA, NHL or MLB.

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