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  1. #1
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Visanthe Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve the money


    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/22/visanthe-shiancoe-with-injury-risks-nfl-players-deserve-the-money/


    I agree with him. I wanted to address several of the comments that will be made about firefighters, policemen, and our armed forces paycheck. No one is going to dispute that these positions are deserving of a bigger check and put their lives on the line daily. However, if these positions were paid millions of dollars, everyone would run to these positions and the best of the best would be employed as firemen etc. The real issues is that like any position, if you are employed and doing something you love, you would like to be paid more to do it. Everyone wants to make 100K a year except the people making 100K a year. Think back to a time when you made less money than you do now. Think about how you may have thought that an increase of pay would solve your problems, when you received it, did it? Its a fact of life. People always want more. It's not greed, it's capitalism. These guys do have a shorter life span and live in chronic pain for the rest of their lives. The owners will make billions of dollars over their lifespan. In closing many of you all cry about how you would play this Game for free....I highly doubt that. That love for the game would last about 2 years when you realize your peers are being paid and you aren't. Would you work for you company for free?

  2. #2
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Yeah they have it rough. I have had a few smoke inhalation events as a volunteer fireman and now when i get close to a fire my lungs clamp shut like a clam. But I get paid well for it. In fact last year I think I was paid nearly 175 dollars before taxes

  3. #3
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092138
    Visanthe Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve the money


    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/22/visanthe-shiancoe-with-injury-risks-nfl-players-deserve-the-money/


    I agree with him. I wanted to address several of the comments that will be made about firefighters, policemen, and our armed forces paycheck. No one is going to dispute that these positions are deserving of a bigger check and put their lives on the line daily. However, if these positions were paid millions of dollars, everyone would run to these positions and the best of the best would be employed as firemen etc. The real issues is that like any position, if you are employed and doing something you love, you would like to be paid more to do it. Everyone wants to make 100K a year except the people making 100K a year. Think back to a time when you made less money than you do now. Think about how you may have thought that an increase of pay would solve your problems, when you received it, did it? Its a fact of life. People always want more. It's not greed, it's capitalism. These guys do have a shorter life span and live in chronic pain for the rest of their lives. The owners will make billions of dollars over their lifespan. In closing many of you all cry about how you would play this Game for free....I highly doubt that. That love for the game would last about 2 years when you realize your peers are being paid and you aren't. Would you work for you company for free?
    You miss the entire point. Of course no one would play for free especially if it is their livelyhood. The problem is his logic. His logic is since he goes out ther eand puts his life on the line he should make more than he already makes or the owners should give them a cut of what they make.

    No one would or should work for free. Shiancoe's logic states that because he puts his life on the line he should get a cut of what the owners make. He already does get a cut of what the owners make and the owners have every right to determine his worth to HIS or THEIR organization.

    As you mentioned the firefighters, police, military they all agree to a job for the salary they make and using Shiancoe's logic they should make a lot more than him. Shiancoe's plays a sport that allows him to be off the field for at very least 32 weeks per year and that is if you make the superbowl.

    The other professions put their life onthe line day in and day out and usually work 5 days a week (sometimes more) to give people like Shiancoe the opportunity to play the sport of football. So forgive the rest of us (especially us who have served and lost good friends to war) when we show NO SYMPATHY what-so-ever toward a guy that makes millions of dollars every year to work less than half of a year.

    We all understand the circumstance and his talents allow him to play football at the professional level. We all love watching the game and players make what they do because of the revenue their organization can bring in. Now look at the fact it is because of US (fans that consist of firefighters, police, military and any other occupation) that give their organizations their well earned money so they can pay the players. Now tell me how Shiancoe or the professional football players contribute in paying our salary. NONE!

    So forgive those of us that don't agree with Shianoce's ridiculous logic. Hell you can throw in Peterson and Mendenhall while we are at it. They all need to STFU and play football. Nuff said!

  4. #4
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Your statement about him wanting more money is invalid. The players had a deal in place. People seem to forget this. The players and owners had a contract that ran for 2 more years. The owners decided to opt out of the contract to fix it now. They didn't have to opt out of it. They could have give their sides 2 more years to fix the issue and not force a lockout. Did they? Nope. They claim to be loosing money at a time that they game is the most popular it's ever been. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. All the players are saying is that if you wish to negotiate a lower rate of pay for us players, show us where you are loosing money and we will concede. How is that unreasonable?


    I think AD was right on with his comments. I don't believe that the only type of slavery is the American institution of slavery. Think back to the Roman times and their gladiators that were paid very well, cheered by the fans, and were famous but were slaves nevertheless. I don't think he was saying he is a slave... but I believe the comparison is there. Ad isn't the first player to say it and he won't be the last. Perhaps there is more to it than we the average fan realize? I know that a lot of people believe that football players only play 16 weeks o_O. Football is year round. Again, this isn't about the public and players. It's between the owners and players. People seem to think they can compare themselves to players....why don't you compare yourselves to the owners, who are so money hungry that they can't even agree to share revenue among themselves which is better for the game.

  5. #5
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1092149
    Your statement about him wanting more money is invalid. The players had a deal in place. People seem to forget this. The players and owners had a contract that ran for 2 more years. The owners decided to opt out of the contract to fix it now. They didn't have to opt out of it. They could have give their sides 2 more years to fix the issue and not force a lockout. Did they? Nope. They claim to be loosing money at a time that they game is the most popular it's ever been. If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. All the players are saying is that if you wish to negotiate a lower rate of pay for us players, show us where you are loosing money and we will concede. How is that unreasonable?


    I think AD was right on with his comments. I don't believe that the only type of slavery is the American institution of slavery. Think back to the Roman times and their gladiators that were paid very well, cheered by the fans, and were famous but were slaves nevertheless. I don't think he was saying he is a slave... but I believe the comparison is there. Ad isn't the first player to say it and he won't be the last. Perhaps there is more to it than we the average fan realize? I know that a lot of people believe that football players only play 16 weeks o_O. Football is year round. Again, this isn't about the public and players. It's between the owners and players. People seem to think they can compare themselves to players....why don't you compare yourselves to the owners, who are so money hungry that they can't even agree to share revenue among themselves which is better for the game.
    The owners did opt out of what was the contract and had every right to do so. The main reason was because of the ridiculous rookie salaries that were costing teams many years when their draft became a bust. The owners are not asking the current players to take pay cuts at all. Even if they did, they still earned that right as owners. The players have choices. Take the salaries/benefits offered to them or go find another job. The same choice you or I would face in this type of scenerio.

    As to APs comments - All I have to ask you is show me ONE, I repeat, ONE "slave" that earned millions of dollars. Once again, the players have choices. They don't have to sign a contract if they don't want to. There have been a few players that whined their way to another team like Eli Manning and John Elway to name a couple. If the players are unhappy where they are going then don't go. The term "slavery" is the most assinine term to use when trying to compare these two situations.

    Now to go back to Shiancoe's comments. His logic was taken from how he "risks his life" out on the playing field so the players should get more money. You want to tell me again how it has nothing to do with the players not getting more money? The owners have every right to establish a worth of a player they hire. The player has a right not to sign a contract. Again, I urge Shiancoe to go get a different job if he is not happy with what he gets paid.

  6. #6
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Every other job in America, the owner/boss decides who gets paid what.

    The rising cost of oil is raising the costs of everything in America. It costs more to reap, sow, produce, and ship goods (players) around the country.

    Most companies who give their employees a "slice of the pie," are based on Profit Sharing, in other words, AFTER COSTS. The current NFL model is based on revenue sharing, which means the players get their share before costs, leaving the owners to eat all the rising costs. Construction and maintainenance of stadiums being among those costs most effected by the price of oil.

    So, last we heard, the Owners wanted to take 1 billion off the top, the Players were willing to give a lil less than that in return for some things they need. So, my proposal is that they take that money, say $750mill, but instead of putting it into owners pockets, it goes into self-sustaining, interest bearing funds that are dedicated to fixing the other problems.

    1. Stadium development and maintenance.
    2. Veteran Benefits (ongoing insurance coverage, continuing education, and retirement payments for players based on number of years (games?) played who didn't exceed a certain level (10mil/year?)
    3. Research into safety, instant replay upgrades, etc etc

    Maybe, 300m/year into 1 and 2, with the 150 remaining going to 3...? Just an idea, obviously the split here would again require debate.


    Other compromises:

    17 games instead of 18. Lose one preseason game. Each team still gets 8 home games with 16 games a year to be played in new and/or international markets. LA could host a game. Auburn, Nebraska, Iowa, etc are large stadiums in states without an NFL franchise.

    Guarantee that the funds not paid to 1st round picks are paid to later round picks who outperform their lower deals.

    Keep the salary minimum close to the salary maximum to ensure teams are paying players, and for competiveness.

    Another option could be raising the roster size a little so the salary is spread out among more players. Less investment risk in few, and more players have a chance to make an NFL team.


    Yes, the players are taking risks, and have an extremely short average career. I get their side of the argument. But there are also many of them who are being paid 10++ mill/year. I'm not feeling too bad for Peyton Manning's or Tom Brady's wallets. I'm more concerned about the fringe guys who keep making a team on STs and taking a wallop because of it while never recieving the Big PayDay.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  7. #7
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Good points on both sides in this thread. I personally don't sympathize with either side when it comes to the business. The players will try and get what they can (as they should) and the owner's will try and get buy with paying as little as they can (as they should).

    If one side has more power than the other, they will dictate the terms, as it is in every other aspect of life.

    And Visanthe's comments were pretty out of touch with reality, but then again, why should he know about reality..he is not living in the same world as you and I and his sense of entitlement is different than most of our perspectives. Don't really blame him for this perspective, I just have the insight from the other side that he doesn't.

    The first poster on that article, sums it up pretty well:

    chapnastier says: Mar 22, 2011 7:27 AM

    Hey Visanthe I have a little reality check for you sir. You know exactly what risks you face when you step onto a football field and you are rewarded handsomely for that effort. If you donít enjoy the side effects of your GAME, then I suggest you take the millions you have made and combine that with the free education you got from a top notch university and go find an alternative job that will be far less physical.

    However, I think you have a very skewed look on reality in this world sir. The armed forces, policemen, firemen, paramedics and other emergency workers risk injury and their lives for a yearly salary equivalent to 1/4 of your workout bonus. Thatís right. The real heroes of this country who actually risk their lives get paid in a year what you get paid to go to the damn gym and exercise. Get a grip on reality sir.

  8. #8
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    The Arena Football League - which has a FAR higher incidence of injury than the NFL used to pay players @ $140,000 per year.

    Not a bad salary, compared to most, but not enough to get rich on.

    They now offer $400 per game...and people still play.

    http://www.asylum.com/2010/03/01/jeremy-unertl-players-dish-the-dirt-on-arena-football-leagues-return/

    Don't tell me NFL players "DESERVE" the money...they don't.

    There are dozens of jobs more dangerous than the NFL...none of which make a FRACTION of what an NFL player makes, but all far more VITAL to our nation than teh NFL is.

    Sorry, Vishante...as an overpaid member of an overpaid class, I politely exercise my right to say, "BULLSHIT".

    Caine

  9. #9
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092177
    The Arena Football League - which has a FAR higher incidence of injury than the NFL used to pay players @ $140,000 per year.

    Not a bad salary, compared to most, but not enough to get rich on.

    They now offer $400 per game...and people still play.

    http://www.asylum.com/2010/03/01/jeremy-unertl-players-dish-the-dirt-on-arena-football-leagues-return/

    Don't tell me NFL players "DESERVE" the money...they don't.

    There are dozens of jobs more dangerous than the NFL...none of which make a FRACTION of what an NFL player makes, but all far more VITAL to our nation than teh NFL is.

    Sorry, Vishante...as an overpaid member of an overpaid class, I politely exercise my right to say, "BULLSHIT".

    Caine
    Here is my quote on that same post in PFT:

    ejmat2 says:
    Mar 22, 2011 7:56 AM
    Visanthe Ė As a Viking fan I know you are a good player and give your all week after week. However the posts ahead of me lay out exactly what I was thinking. You are paid millions of dollars to do what you do 4-5 months out of the year. Then you have your MILITARY out in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as all over the world making far less than that yet donít whine about what they make or ask for a share of the Government makes. Then the Government wants to throw money at other countries for their problems yet throw in an action plan to not pay the military.

    Throw in the Fire Fighters, Policemen and women that are endangered day after day. I bet all of these people would love to switch places with you and work 4-5 months out of the year to make what you do.

    My advice to all the football players is STFU and get out there and just play football. You know the game you wanted to play your entire life and the game that a lot of us wish we could be a part of. Get rid of that stupid joke of a union and let the games be played as they should be. The mroe the football players open their mouths the more foolish you look. Maybe Demaurice Smith should tell the players to shut up. Hell heís trying to tell draftees who arenít even employed yet by the NFl to boycott the draft. What idiots!!!!

  10. #10
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    Re: Shiancoe: With injury risks, NFL players deserve..

    Quote Originally Posted by "tastywaves" #1092174
    Good points on both sides in this thread. I personally don't sympathize with either side when it comes to the business. The players will try and get what they can (as they should) and the owner's will try and get buy with paying as little as they can (as they should).

    If one side has more power than the other, they will dictate the terms, as it is in every other aspect of life.

    And Visanthe's comments were pretty out of touch with reality, but then again, why should he know about reality..he is not living in the same world as you and I and his sense of entitlement is different than most of our perspectives. Don't really blame him for this perspective, I just have the insight from the other side that he doesn't.

    The first poster on that article, sums it up pretty well:

    chapnastier says: Mar 22, 2011 7:27 AM

    Hey Visanthe I have a little reality check for you sir. You know exactly what risks you face when you step onto a football field and you are rewarded handsomely for that effort. If you donít enjoy the side effects of your GAME, then I suggest you take the millions you have made and combine that with the free education you got from a top notch university and go find an alternative job that will be far less physical.

    However, I think you have a very skewed look on reality in this world sir. The armed forces, policemen, firemen, paramedics and other emergency workers risk injury and their lives for a yearly salary equivalent to 1/4 of your workout bonus. Thatís right. The real heroes of this country who actually risk their lives get paid in a year what you get paid to go to the damn gym and exercise. Get a grip on reality sir.
    +1, I totally agree.

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