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  1. #21
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Shiancoe delivers for Vikings

    He's doing a lot of blocking right now. As TJ improves at reading the blitzes and adjusting, Shiancoe will catch more passes.
    He's done well when called on. And we are a 2 tight end squad already to some degree.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #22
    seaniemck7's Avatar
    seaniemck7 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Shiancoe delivers for Vikings

    "V" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=39938.msg678642#msg678642 date=1195917786]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=39938.msg678265#msg678265 date=1195828504]
    The Giants were shocked when the Vikings in free agency signed Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million contract that includes $7 million in guaranteed money.
    I still think that contract was way to high for V-Shi at the time. I hope he earns it.
    I think so too. Until the opening play last week he has been pretty quiet this year considering that the Tight end is someone you would think would be more vital on third downs in this offense.
    I don't know why Childress hasn't gotten the TE's more involved in the WCO these past two seasons. It boggles the mind.

    I thought the main reason they let Wiggens go to get a more speedy TE was to get him involved more.
    I feel the same way. I think everyone thought we would see a lot of passes to the TEs down the seam.

    If I'm searching real hard for an answer, and I might be reaching, the only thing I can come up with is QB play. Maybe they are not comfortable enough to throw it down the middle of the field.
    As we saw in 2005 with Wiggins, you don't have to throw the ball deep to a TE. Wiggins had several short-medium passes that he caught. He just didn't have the legs/speed to get a lot of YAC (*). That's where I figured V-Shi would fit the bill
    better.



    (*) For a big guy he sure could jump over defenders.
    I know.

    And as I said, I'm just as baffled as you, to find out why we are not getting the ball into his hands more.
    [/quote]

    Shiancoe, like the rest of our receivers, isn;t good enough to be a reliable and consistent guy for our QBs. He has not stretched the field, at all. HE is a stellar blocker, which Wiggins was not. Up to this point, I just don't see the "upgrade"
    [/quote]

    I think you are judging Shincoe's talents a little too soon.
    Two factors make me feel we should give him more time to judge his overall value.

    1. Our line doesn't block consistantly well in the passing game. Being a tight end,
    he has been needed to help stay in and block.
    Check out the production of Cooley to start the year (first 4 games) when the Redskins had a plethora of injuries to their starting line. He averaged 2.5 catches and 20 yards a game. Now granted he caught 3 TDs, but he is not stretching the field when his best yardage game is a total of 26 yards.

    2.
    Our QBs have lacked consistant play and have been in a constant rotation due to injuries. Other than our running game our pass attack has been pretty much shit save a couple of 60 yarders.
    One only has to take a peak at Vernon Davis and his production in SF.
    He has put up a couple of good weeks, but also some real stinkers like 2 rec for 4 yds; 2 rec for 23 yds; 4 rec for 22 yds; 1 rec for 4 yds.
    Does this mean Davis sucks?
    Hell no.
    He is stuck in an anemic passing offense.

    I will reserve my judgement on Shank for later.

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Shiancoe delivers for Vikings

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=39938.msg678835#msg678835 date=1195965666]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=39938.msg678642#msg678642 date=1195917786]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=39938.msg678265#msg678265 date=1195828504]
    The Giants were shocked when the Vikings in free agency signed Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million contract that includes $7 million in guaranteed money.
    I still think that contract was way to high for V-Shi at the time. I hope he earns it.
    I think so too. Until the opening play last week he has been pretty quiet this year considering that the Tight end is someone you would think would be more vital on third downs in this offense.
    I don't know why Childress hasn't gotten the TE's more involved in the WCO these past two seasons. It boggles the mind.

    I thought the main reason they let Wiggens go to get a more speedy TE was to get him involved more.
    I feel the same way. I think everyone thought we would see a lot of passes to the TEs down the seam.

    If I'm searching real hard for an answer, and I might be reaching, the only thing I can come up with is QB play. Maybe they are not comfortable enough to throw it down the middle of the field.
    As we saw in 2005 with Wiggins, you don't have to throw the ball deep to a TE. Wiggins had several short-medium passes that he caught. He just didn't have the legs/speed to get a lot of YAC (*). That's where I figured V-Shi would fit the bill
    better.



    (*) For a big guy he sure could jump over defenders.
    I know.

    And as I said, I'm just as baffled as you, to find out why we are not getting the ball into his hands more.
    [/quote]

    Shiancoe, like the rest of our receivers, isn;t good enough to be a reliable and consistent guy for our QBs. He has not stretched the field, at all. HE is a stellar blocker, which Wiggins was not. Up to this point, I just don't see the "upgrade"
    [/quote]

    I think you are judging Shincoe's talents a little too soon.
    Two factors make me feel we should give him more time to judge his overall value.

    1. Our line doesn't block consistantly well in the passing game. Being a tight end,
    he has been needed to help stay in and block.
    Check out the production of Cooley to start the year (first 4 games) when the Redskins had a plethora of injuries to their starting line. He averaged 2.5 catches and 20 yards a game. Now granted he caught 3 TDs, but he is not stretching the field when his best yardage game is a total of 26 yards.

    2.
    Our QBs have lacked consistant play and have been in a constant rotation due to injuries. Other than our running game our pass attack has been pretty much pooh save a couple of 60 yarders.
    One only has to take a peak at Vernon Davis and his production in SF.
    He has put up a couple of good weeks, but also some real stinkers like 2 rec for 4 yds; 2 rec for 23 yds; 4 rec for 22 yds; 1 rec for 4 yds.
    Does this mean Davis sucks?
    Hell no.
    He is stuck in an anemic passing offense.

    I will reserve my judgement on Shank for later.
    [/quote]
    Very nice post my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
    V-Unit's Avatar
    V-Unit is offline Jersey Retired
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    6,317

    Re: Shiancoe delivers for Vikings

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "cogitans" wrote:
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=39938.msg678835#msg678835 date=1195965666]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=39938.msg678642#msg678642 date=1195917786]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=39938.msg678265#msg678265 date=1195828504]
    The Giants were shocked when the Vikings in free agency signed Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million contract that includes $7 million in guaranteed money.
    I still think that contract was way to high for V-Shi at the time. I hope he earns it.
    I think so too. Until the opening play last week he has been pretty quiet this year considering that the Tight end is someone you would think would be more vital on third downs in this offense.
    I don't know why Childress hasn't gotten the TE's more involved in the WCO these past two seasons. It boggles the mind.

    I thought the main reason they let Wiggens go to get a more speedy TE was to get him involved more.
    I feel the same way. I think everyone thought we would see a lot of passes to the TEs down the seam.

    If I'm searching real hard for an answer, and I might be reaching, the only thing I can come up with is QB play. Maybe they are not comfortable enough to throw it down the middle of the field.
    As we saw in 2005 with Wiggins, you don't have to throw the ball deep to a TE. Wiggins had several short-medium passes that he caught. He just didn't have the legs/speed to get a lot of YAC (*). That's where I figured V-Shi would fit the bill
    better.



    (*) For a big guy he sure could jump over defenders.
    I know.

    And as I said, I'm just as baffled as you, to find out why we are not getting the ball into his hands more.
    [/quote]

    Shiancoe, like the rest of our receivers, isn;t good enough to be a reliable and consistent guy for our QBs. He has not stretched the field, at all. HE is a stellar blocker, which Wiggins was not. Up to this point, I just don't see the "upgrade"
    [/quote]

    I think you are judging Shincoe's talents a little too soon.
    Two factors make me feel we should give him more time to judge his overall value.

    1. Our line doesn't block consistantly well in the passing game. Being a tight end,
    he has been needed to help stay in and block.
    Check out the production of Cooley to start the year (first 4 games) when the Redskins had a plethora of injuries to their starting line. He averaged 2.5 catches and 20 yards a game. Now granted he caught 3 TDs, but he is not stretching the field when his best yardage game is a total of 26 yards.

    2.
    Our QBs have lacked consistant play and have been in a constant rotation due to injuries. Other than our running game our pass attack has been pretty much shit save a couple of 60 yarders.
    One only has to take a peak at Vernon Davis and his production in SF.
    He has put up a couple of good weeks, but also some real stinkers like 2 rec for 4 yds; 2 rec for 23 yds; 4 rec for 22 yds; 1 rec for 4 yds.
    Does this mean Davis sucks?
    Hell no.
    He is stuck in an anemic passing offense.

    I will reserve my judgement on Shank for later.
    [/quote]

    Saying he wasn't an uprgrade was an overstatement, I'll admit that.

    Shiancoe has had some solid games, but has also put up some complete duds. If he were getting 2 catches a game, I wouldn't have much to complain about.

    Yes our passing offense is anemic, that's a great point. I for one hold our receivers more responsible for that than our line. Better blocking might benefit Shiancoe's receiving production, but I think if we had a true #1 receiver that defenses had to respect, that would benefit him more. Right now defenses focus on trying to take away the run and short passes, which is probably why the deep ball is starting to work.

    Basically I think the solution is to have Rice and Williamson stretch the field and let Shiancoe and Wade roam the middle. Nothing Shiancoe has shown me (no, not even the deep pass against Oakland, it was a fake WR reverse pass for chrissakes) makes me think he can stretch the field.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

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