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  1. #91
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Chilly's ego is getting in the way, he drafted TJ and just won't give up on him until it is too late. The only good thing is if it happens maybe Wilf will can his ass.
    Are you still holding onto the belief that the Chiller runs around making decisions all by himself?

    Additionally, why would the Wilfs fire the Chiller? Hasn't the team gotten further and further each and every year?

    Makes no sense to think otherwise. Course, I sometime miss the sense in things that other see.
    True, Chilly doesn't make decisions totally by himself, but I'm pretty sure his is the final word. His ass is on the line if the Vikes do bad.

    As for the Vikes doing better each year. IMO it's because Wilf is willing to put out the BIG $$$ for players like Hutch and Allen, he got lucky to draft 2 ROY's, and the luck to get Favre.

    Tice could have taken this team to the playoffs without a doubt, since he took a shadow of this team to 9-7.

    Chilly should go to Vegas, because he's got the luck.
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  2. #92
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    gagarr wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Chilly's ego is getting in the way, he drafted TJ and just won't give up on him until it is too late. The only good thing is if it happens maybe Wilf will can his ass.
    Are you still holding onto the belief that the Chiller runs around making decisions all by himself?

    Additionally, why would the Wilfs fire the Chiller? Hasn't the team gotten further and further each and every year?

    Makes no sense to think otherwise. Course, I sometime miss the sense in things that other see.
    True, Chilly doesn't make decisions totally by himself, but I'm pretty sure his is the final word. His ass is on the line if the Vikes do bad.

    As for the Vikes doing better each year. IMO it's because Wilf is willing to put out the BIG $$$ for players like Hutch and Allen, he got lucky to draft 2 ROY's, and the luck to get Favre.

    Tice could have taken this team to the playoffs without a doubt, since he took a shadow of this team to 9-7.

    Chilly should go to Vegas, because he's got the luck.
    LOL, you still crack me up my friend...... Think about this for one minute......

    His ass is on the line if the Vikes do bad.
    ....if that is true, then why would he go with his ego in an effort to keep a QB that isn't ever gonna amount to anything?

    Again, gets back to me missing something.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #93
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    Sage has been here for 18 months. 2 training camps, 2 preseassons.

    I think Bevell has an opinion. As does the Spielman. As does the QB coach. Chilly may have the final say but I highly doubt he makes the decision without consulting others on his staff.
    Some deep words of wisdom right there my friends.

    Excellent post JMC....
    Marr, you're definitely not helping JMC's argument by agreeing with him in a QB debate. lol. :P
    LOL, probably not, however, JMC is a big boy. He needs no help from me. :lol:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #94
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Chilly's ego is getting in the way, he drafted TJ and just won't give up on him until it is too late. The only good thing is if it happens maybe Wilf will can his ass.
    Are you still holding onto the belief that the Chiller runs around making decisions all by himself?

    Additionally, why would the Wilfs fire the Chiller? Hasn't the team gotten further and further each and every year?

    Makes no sense to think otherwise. Course, I sometime miss the sense in things that other see.
    True, Chilly doesn't make decisions totally by himself, but I'm pretty sure his is the final word. His ass is on the line if the Vikes do bad.

    As for the Vikes doing better each year. IMO it's because Wilf is willing to put out the BIG $$$ for players like Hutch and Allen, he got lucky to draft 2 ROY's, and the luck to get Favre.

    Tice could have taken this team to the playoffs without a doubt, since he took a shadow of this team to 9-7.

    Chilly should go to Vegas, because he's got the luck.
    LOL, you still crack me up my friend...... Think about this for one minute......

    His ass is on the line if the Vikes do bad.
    ....if that is true, then why would he go with his ego in an effort to keep a QB that isn't ever gonna amount to anything?

    Again, gets back to me missing something.
    People with egos rationalize they are doing the right thing. If Chilly didn't have the rose colored glasses he wouldn't be betting on TJ.

    Maybe I'm wrong and Chilly listens to people, Bevell.. Spielman, etc. and makes a logical choice based on the info.. But since he said TJ was ready 2 years ago, which he wasn't. He continues to claim TJ is still progressing but is still looking like the same TJ of 2 years ago. And he doesn't seem to care how good Sage plays and has clearly made up his mind regardless.

    Given that track record I don't think he cares what others think or do, because he's gonna get his way in the end.
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  5. #95
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    Sage has been here for 18 months. 2 training camps, 2 preseassons.

    I think Bevell has an opinion. As does the Spielman. As does the QB coach. Chilly may have the final say but I highly doubt he makes the decision without consulting others on his staff.
    Some deep words of wisdom right there my friends.

    Excellent post JMC....
    Marr, you're definitely not helping JMC's argument by agreeing with him in a QB debate. lol. :P
    +1

    =Z=

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  6. #96
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    gagarr wrote:
    Question:

    Will the QB's performance in the final preseason game mean anything or will Chilly blindly go with TJ regardless?
    He will go with TJ regardless. There is no indication that he wants any other QB than Jackson to run his offense if Brett isn't on the field. That is what I really dislike about him as a coach and why I don't feel he will be long for the team once Brett is done.

  7. #97
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    Purple Floyd wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Question:

    Will the QB's performance in the final preseason game mean anything or will Chilly blindly go with TJ regardless?
    He will go with TJ regardless. There is no indication that he wants any other QB than Jackson to run his offense if Brett isn't on the field. That is what I really dislike about him as a coach and why I don't feel he will be long for the team once Brett is done.
    If we don't win the Super Bowl this year, I think Childress has to go. Promote Frazier and draft a top tier QB and some O-lineman.

    Just out of curiousity, assuming we have the 32nd pick in the draft, what would you be willing to give up in order to move up in the draft to draft a Ryan Mallet, Jake Locker, Andrew Luck etc.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  8. #98
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    jmcdon00 wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    I don't think those stats should be used to compare to Favre who plays when it counts. But to compare to Sage or Webb I think it's probably more valuable than preseason.

    Last two years Tjack's stats:
    47/75 62% 564yds 4td 0int 0fumble

    Sage
    49/78 62% 624yds 4td 1int 1fumble
    So pretty much identical. Especially if you add in TJack's playoff game (why do people keep leaving that out?).

    Either way, it still tells me that neither one is starter material.
    I think those stats he posted were from preseason only.
    My bad, thanks for the correction.

    OK, pretty damn even. IDK - I won't cry regardless of which one gets the boot. Neither one of them is the future of the Vikings.
    Not sure why I corrected you, I think either way your point still stands.

    If you look at Jackson's stats, he can manage a game. But in today's NFL a game manager isn't going to cut it. Gone are the days of only run first/stop the run. You need more than a running game to win championships.

    All of the elite teams have good passing games.

    Sage seems to have the ability to drive the field and make some plays but I question his consistency and turnovers and decision making.
    2009 The Jets made the AFC championship game with the 31st ranked pass offense.
    2008 the Steelers won the superbowl with the 18th ranked pass offense. Baltimore made the AFC championship game with the 22nd ranked pass offense.
    2007 Giants won the superbowl with the 21st ranked pass offense. San Diego made the AFC championship game with the 26th ranked pass offense.
    I exaggerated by saying "every", but I'm sure you saw my point when digging for stats.

    Of the nearly 100 teams of the past 3 years you were able to find 4 teams and some of them I would argue were not elite simply because they made it far into the playoffs one season.

    4% of teams with mediocre passing games made it deep in the playoffs in the past 3 years, 1 terrible passing game (09 'Jets) and they didn't make the big dance (largely due to their inability to pass the ball in the championship game). Yippie.

    Passing games are necessary.
    2 of the last 3 superbowl winners had below average passing attacks. 3 out of the last 5.
    Obviously it helps to have a good passing game. But it's still not as important as having a good defense.
    They may have had slightly below average passing rankings, but they had more than game managers at QB. Something of which TJack is not. Neither Eli or Ben are game managers.

    It's hard to compare QBs because Jackson hasn't yet convinced the coachign staff he's good enough to start for a full season. To date, Jackson has never broken the 2000 yard mark in a season.

    Giants SB Year: Eli had over 3200 yards passing and 21 TDs, 10 INTs (I'll give you average here)

    Steelers SB Year: Ben had over 3150 yards passing and 32 Tds, 11 INTS

    Those numbers look better than average to me. What were you using for your passing stat that placed the team below average? I'd like to know how many teams had more than 32 passing TDs in 2007.
    just went by regular season pass yards(nfl.com default for team passing)
    Steelers won in 08. 19pass TD 15int.
    Giants in 07. 23td 20int
    There is no magic stat to gauge how well a team will do in teh Super bowl. We can look at almost any season and see teams that aren't ranked very well sliding into the Play-offs then getting hot. Hell, look at the Cardinals in '08.

    Even using statistics, it's hard to pinpoint any single important attribute...or any 3 important ones for that matter. For example, in '02, the Patriots had the 12th ranked passing offense, the 28th ranked rushing offense, and the 23rd ranked Defense..and they beat the Rams who were #2 passing, #30 rushing, and #13 on D.

    What is needed is a quality team. One that comes together and plays as a unit - on both sides of the ball. It certainly helps when you have an elite QB under center. Guys like Warner, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, and Brees have accounted for 9 of the past 11 Super Bowl wins.

    Caine

  9. #99
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    Marrdro wrote:
    12purplepride28 wrote:
    V4L wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    IMHO the order should be TJack, Sage, and then Webb. However, since we arent' going to keep 4 QBs, the question becomes who is the odd man out.

    TJack makes a strong #2. I still don't think he is starter material, but I think he is one of the best backups in the league. I think Sage holds the most trade value for us. If we can I say we trade him and recoup some of what we paid for him. If not, keep him as the #3 and push Webb to the practice squad. If he gets picked up, no huge loss. He is an intriguing prospect, but nothing I would lose sleep over.
    So if you don't think TJ is starter material, who do you start if Favre misses 4 weeks with injury? Sage or TJ?

    -V-

    I'm guessing he would say Jackson looking at his post

    Not many back ups are starter material.. That is why they are well, backups?
    True, but they weren't going to be backups until Favre got here. They were competing for a starting job, therefore one of them should've been starting material.
    I don't think there was any competition at all this year. The competition was last year and TJ won out.
    If the competition was last year Chilly had to be drunk or high if TJ beat out Sage!! :woohoo:

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  10. #100
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    Re:Sage vs. Webb vs. Tjack

    tarkenton10 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    12purplepride28 wrote:
    V4L wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    IMHO the order should be TJack, Sage, and then Webb. However, since we arent' going to keep 4 QBs, the question becomes who is the odd man out.

    TJack makes a strong #2. I still don't think he is starter material, but I think he is one of the best backups in the league. I think Sage holds the most trade value for us. If we can I say we trade him and recoup some of what we paid for him. If not, keep him as the #3 and push Webb to the practice squad. If he gets picked up, no huge loss. He is an intriguing prospect, but nothing I would lose sleep over.
    So if you don't think TJ is starter material, who do you start if Favre misses 4 weeks with injury? Sage or TJ?

    -V-

    I'm guessing he would say Jackson looking at his post

    Not many back ups are starter material.. That is why they are well, backups?
    True, but they weren't going to be backups until Favre got here. They were competing for a starting job, therefore one of them should've been starting material.
    I don't think there was any competition at all this year. The competition was last year and TJ won out.
    If the competition was last year Chilly had to be drunk or high if TJ beat out Sage!! :woohoo:
    I've never felt there was a competition. Sage was Spielman's guy and Childress never wanted him.

    I don't care which one they keep, but Childress will go down with TJ if he fails.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
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