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  1. #41
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    A great RT is going to prevent sacks or hurries and avoid penalties about 80 to 90 percent of the time. That obviously depends on the caliber of DL that they are facing. Criticizing our run blocking is laughable unless you expect each lineman to block two defenders when we run. Cook has done fine, except for this game, where I do agree he was bad. At the same time, are we really expecting Cook to turn into an all prop blocker?

    If you want to point out his bad play vs the Lions that is fine, but to see one bad game then all of a sudden say he has been horrible all year (there have been minimal complaints about the OL until this last game, and that is because they have played well.) is over the top. He's not getting benched, and hopefully he'll work his ass off and bounce back from a tough game. That is exactly whats going to happen and we all know it.
    What are you talking about? I have been saying he sucks for as long as he has been playing. this is no sudden revelation that happened yesterday at 3:16 PM.

    He has been playing bad since he was put in as a starter but will have one good game every so often that people will use to justify his existence.

  2. #42
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    A great RT is going to prevent sacks or hurries and avoid penalties about 80 to 90 percent of the time. That obviously depends on the caliber of DL that they are facing. Criticizing our run blocking is laughable unless you expect each lineman to block two defenders when we run. Cook has done fine, except for this game, where I do agree he was bad. At the same time, are we really expecting Cook to turn into an all prop blocker?

    If you want to point out his bad play vs the Lions that is fine, but to see one bad game then all of a sudden say he has been horrible all year (there have been minimal complaints about the OL until this last game, and that is because they have played well.) is over the top. He's not getting benched, and hopefully he'll work his ass off and bounce back from a tough game. That is exactly whats going to happen and we all know it.
    What are you talking about? I have been saying he sucks for as long as he has been playing. this is no sudden revelation that happened yesterday at 3:16 PM.

    He has been playing bad since he was put in as a starter but will have one good game every so often that people will use to justify his existence.
    Fact remains, he's had one bad game this year.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  3. #43
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    He was also a center in college, a very capable one. Taking a guy who is used to playing inside and moving him on an island is going to take some getting used to.

    I cant accept the penalties, they are unforgivable. Getting beat now and then it happens.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  4. #44
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    Agreed.
    His penalties show lack of focus.
    He has made some decent blocks but he has also been beaten too many times IMO which will also show lack of focus or just poor blocking skills.

  5. #45
    AngloVike's Avatar
    AngloVike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    Agreed.
    His penalties show lack of focus.
    He has made some decent blocks but he has also been beaten too many times IMO which will also show lack of focus or just poor blocking skills.
    and you'd also expect the coaching staff to see this when they review the game film. So as well putting some of this on Cook then how about some words about the OL coaching or lack thereof. He was originally a center so its going to take him time to make the adjustment, especially if he's having to sefl-teach. I'm not saying that he will ever be pro-bowl material but he could still be a solid player. However getting left on his own won't help his development or the team.
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  6. #46
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "AngloVike" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    Agreed.
    His penalties show lack of focus.
    He has made some decent blocks but he has also been beaten too many times IMO which will also show lack of focus or just poor blocking skills.
    and you'd also expect the coaching staff to see this when they review the game film. So as well putting some of this on Cook then how about some words about the OL coaching or lack thereof. He was originally a center so its going to take him time to make the adjustment, especially if he's having to sefl-teach. I'm not saying that he will ever be pro-bowl material but he could still be a solid player. However getting left on his own won't help his development or the team.
    I don't believe I ever said coaching had nothing to do with this.
    But to respond to your post I think you are correct.
    This is a guy playing out of the position he played in college.
    Regardless of his position, my main issue with Cook is his penalties (false starts and holding).
    Coaches can only coach so much.
    The player has to execute on the field.
    That also leads me to after 2 years of starting in the NFL he is not doing a consistent job on the front line.
    Yes, some of that may be coaching as well.
    The point here is whether or not he is cutting it at RT.
    I would say he isn't.

  7. #47
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=vike_mike link=topic=48492.msg851619#msg851619 date=1223911672]
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    A great RT is going to prevent sacks or hurries and avoid penalties about 80 to 90 percent of the time. That obviously depends on the caliber of DL that they are facing. Criticizing our run blocking is laughable unless you expect each lineman to block two defenders when we run. Cook has done fine, except for this game, where I do agree he was bad. At the same time, are we really expecting Cook to turn into an all prop blocker?

    If you want to point out his bad play vs the Lions that is fine, but to see one bad game then all of a sudden say he has been horrible all year (there have been minimal complaints about the OL until this last game, and that is because they have played well.) is over the top. He's not getting benched, and hopefully he'll work his ass off and bounce back from a tough game. That is exactly whats going to happen and we all know it.
    What are you talking about? I have been saying he sucks for as long as he has been playing. this is no sudden revelation that happened yesterday at 3:16 PM.

    He has been playing bad since he was put in as a starter but will have one good game every so often that people will use to justify his existence.
    Fact remains, he's had one bad game this year.
    [/quote]

    The whole line has been bad since childress took over.
    It isn't just Cook but he is the main offender of a group of underachievers IMO.Let it be known that I am not blaming Cook for not being successful at that spot. I don't think he is to blame for being put in a spot where he is not physically capable of excelling.That is on the coaching staff for putting him there. Listen to what this guy and others said 2 years ago before Cook was even on the field. :

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=479738;topic=27941.20; sesc=2fe16238da0040dd04885ad7991483b9

    "V" wrote:
    Everyone says give the line time..Honestly, how much time do you want to give them? 8 games? The whole year?

    The sad part is if you look at individual plays it isn't lack of communication, usually it is either Mckinnie (who is supposed to have a break out year) or Birk (the multi-pro-bowler) getting beat by bullrushers or speed on the edge. I expect those mistakes from Johnson, but there was one play last week where we were running left. Mckinnie and Hutchinson got their blocks, but Birk's guy straight up beat the all-pro one-on-one and made the tackle. Plays like that just confuse me.
    "Del" wrote:
    The thing I ask myself is why is that right side of the line commiting crucial game changing penalties? From Matt Birk on you have guys that are not able to run the ball, and who are commiting these red zone altering huge penalties. The only thing I can think of is they are getting man handled over there and it is taking it's toll on them.

    I guess it would be a question of does the right side of the line have the talent to improve?
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    I am not panicking yet as we all knew that it would take some time for the O-line to jell (contrary to what Birk thinks) and it has only been 4 games if this is still an issue after week 6 then I will be more concerned.
    Every single person on the O-line has somebody new to the side of them, the best O-lines have people that have played together for 3 or 4 years.
    It takes awhile to get that consistent play when you have new people and only McKinney and Johnson played on the 2005 Viking team!

    I know that everybody wants it to happen overnight but you build an O-line and that is what we are doing!
    The only person on the line that I don't think has the potential to be a stud on the line for us is Hicks, I think he would be a good backup and insurance for injuries but I don't think that he is a future starter for the Vikes and I hope in the offseason that they address this situation either by moving Cook into the right guard spot or going out and getting a good guard.

    Marcus Johnson is only a second year player and he got schooled by Peppers but I don't think he has been the 1st and I don't think he will be the last that Peppers teaches a lesson too.
    But Marcus has the potential to be a very good lineman and I am not giving up on him and I think the coaching staff feels the same way.


    I hope I don't eat a plate full of crow on this but I think by game 6 or 7 we have forgotten about the poor play of the line early in the season!

    Last year we started out 1 - 4, and then went to 2 - 5 and went on to 9 - 7 and barely missed the playoffs and I am much more confident in this line than I was with that line!

  8. #48
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=48492.msg851623#msg851623 date=1223911879]
    [quote author=vike_mike link=topic=48492.msg851619#msg851619 date=1223911672]
    I'ts ridiculous that you believe he's only had one bad game.
    There are several games you can count this year and last that he isn't cutting it.
    Same thing with Marcus Johnson.
    We need to cut loose already.
    Honestly, how do you quantify good RT play?

    Tackles are hardly ever highlighted for good plays, but they always are for bad ones. I would ask you which other games this year he has undeperformed in, but your view is so skewed that I don't expect a reasonable response.
    If he is getting called for penalties, getting beat in pass protection and failing to open up lanes in the running game I would say that is bad play.

    Define for us what you have seen that demonstrate that he has played well.
    A great RT is going to prevent sacks or hurries and avoid penalties about 80 to 90 percent of the time. That obviously depends on the caliber of DL that they are facing. Criticizing our run blocking is laughable unless you expect each lineman to block two defenders when we run. Cook has done fine, except for this game, where I do agree he was bad. At the same time, are we really expecting Cook to turn into an all prop blocker?

    If you want to point out his bad play vs the Lions that is fine, but to see one bad game then all of a sudden say he has been horrible all year (there have been minimal complaints about the OL until this last game, and that is because they have played well.) is over the top. He's not getting benched, and hopefully he'll work his ass off and bounce back from a tough game. That is exactly whats going to happen and we all know it.
    What are you talking about? I have been saying he sucks for as long as he has been playing. this is no sudden revelation that happened yesterday at 3:16 PM.

    He has been playing bad since he was put in as a starter but will have one good game every so often that people will use to justify his existence.
    Fact remains, he's had one bad game this year.
    [/quote]

    The whole line has been bad since childress took over.
    It isn't just Cook but he is the main offender of a group of underachievers IMO.Let it be known that I am not blaming Cook for not being successful at that spot. I don't think he is to blame for being put in a spot where he is not physically capable of excelling.That is on the coaching staff for putting him there. Listen to what this guy and others said 2 years ago before Cook was even on the field. :

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=479738;topic=27941.20; sesc=2fe16238da0040dd04885ad7991483b9

    "V" wrote:
    Everyone says give the line time..Honestly, how much time do you want to give them? 8 games? The whole year?

    The sad part is if you look at individual plays it isn't lack of communication, usually it is either Mckinnie (who is supposed to have a break out year) or Birk (the multi-pro-bowler) getting beat by bullrushers or speed on the edge. I expect those mistakes from Johnson, but there was one play last week where we were running left. Mckinnie and Hutchinson got their blocks, but Birk's guy straight up beat the all-pro one-on-one and made the tackle. Plays like that just confuse me.
    "Del" wrote:
    The thing I ask myself is why is that right side of the line commiting crucial game changing penalties? From Matt Birk on you have guys that are not able to run the ball, and who are commiting these red zone altering huge penalties. The only thing I can think of is they are getting man handled over there and it is taking it's toll on them.

    I guess it would be a question of does the right side of the line have the talent to improve?
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    I am not panicking yet as we all knew that it would take some time for the O-line to jell (contrary to what Birk thinks) and it has only been 4 games if this is still an issue after week 6 then I will be more concerned.
    Every single person on the O-line has somebody new to the side of them, the best O-lines have people that have played together for 3 or 4 years.
    It takes awhile to get that consistent play when you have new people and only McKinney and Johnson played on the 2005 Viking team!

    I know that everybody wants it to happen overnight but you build an O-line and that is what we are doing!
    The only person on the line that I don't think has the potential to be a stud on the line for us is Hicks, I think he would be a good backup and insurance for injuries but I don't think that he is a future starter for the Vikes and I hope in the offseason that they address this situation either by moving Cook into the right guard spot or going out and getting a good guard.

    Marcus Johnson is only a second year player and he got schooled by Peppers but I don't think he has been the 1st and I don't think he will be the last that Peppers teaches a lesson too.
    But Marcus has the potential to be a very good lineman and I am not giving up on him and I think the coaching staff feels the same way.


    I hope I don't eat a plate full of crow on this but I think by game 6 or 7 we have forgotten about the poor play of the line early in the season!

    Last year we started out 1 - 4, and then went to 2 - 5 and went on to 9 - 7 and barely missed the playoffs and I am much more confident in this line than I was with that line!
    [/quote]

    The line was bad before Childress took over.
    The 2005 season will prove that.

  9. #49
    packerbasher is offline Rookie
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    One thing you can count on cook for is a false start penelty or two per game and usally a hold or 2 as well,he's the Todd Stussie of this team.

  10. #50
    slinkey is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Ryan Cook, Just flat out not cutting it

    Stussie had some really good years before he fell apart though....Cook has always blown.

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