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  1. #1
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    I've been saying it for a few weeks now, however, I thought I would put a bit of my research in a thread.

    Most of you know (who take the time to read my posts) that I believe there is a major issue related to QB talent in the NFL now.
    I attribute that to a few things, however, for this discussion, the biggest being the fact that you just can't get through a year with only one guy that can lead the team if you still want to be effective.

    With that said, more and more teams are carrying two high priced QB's on thier roster which greatly reduces the availability of a said QB's that can be picked up by other teams or makes the asking price for them just to high.


    Going into next year, it would appear that the QB wheel at the Vikes is gonna take another spin.
    Let me rationalize this for some of you, who will automatically throw out TJ as an option, with some of my assumptions so that you don't pick the post apart with your perceived facts:

    (Were TJ will be by the end of the year) (Remember my assumptions)
    a.
    It is gonna take at least another year to develop TJ into a viable starter.



    1.
    Still making bad throws.



    2.
    Still throwing ball into defenders hands



    3.
    Still not making reads quickly enough to run the WCO.
    b.
    TJ might not be a viable starter because of injury concerns. (Quality backup for a game or 2)



    1. Groin



    2. Finger



    3. Concussion
    c.
    We need a Vet in that can grow with/lead this team.

    Again, whether TJ will ever be a QB in the NFL is not my discussion point so lets not dwell on that.
    Suffice it to say, however, for this thread, lets make it a fact that he won't be available/viable next year as our starter.

    Were does that lead us?

    IMHO it leads us to the fact that based on what I am seeing this year, we are a QB, WR, and a DE away from being a really good team.
    There will be a pleathura of WR's and DE's out there to choose from, especially with the CAP we have avail so that shouldn't be an issue.
    QB's are another story.

    Again, the state of Vet QB's in the NFL are a huge concern when you start looking at what will be avail in the FA market next year.
    IMHO there won't be anything that this organization can just go out and get off the street.


    That leaves only one solution.
    They will have to broker a deal with a team that has someone sitting on thier roster that can come in and be a quality starter for us.

    Quality starter.
    What does that mean?
    Well for this discussion the following traits/strenghts must come to bear.

    (My recipe for a Quality Starting QB)
    a.
    He has been or is in a WCO scheme.
    Although this isn't as huge as some would think, it would help as he transitions into the scheme we run.
    b.
    He isn't old. I would prefer a 3-5 year vet, could be a backup that is behind a good starter.
    c.
    He has to have no issue with character. Seems the staff will bend on this a bit.
    d. We can get him for no more than 2 picks.
    2 solid drafts with the 3rd coming up for depth leaves a bit of wiggle room for spending 2 picks on the right guy.
    e.
    He doesn't need to be developed.
    He can come right in during the offseason (Pre OTA's) and work with the staff leading up to camp.
    f. The front office needs to do this as soon as they can, but not right before the season starts.

    Lets look at the teams that run a "So Called" WCO now and what they have starting or on the bench.

    (Note 1 - IMHO there are two types of WCO schemes being run today.
    One (P/R) is a Pass to set up the run style and one is Run (R/P) to set up the pass style)
    (Note 2 - IMHO we are a R/P oriented team.
    (V along will like that ;D))

    a.
    Eagles (P/R) - McNabb, Kolb.
    I know, I know, the whole Chiller/Eagles connection will come up but lets keep to some intelligent football convo here.
    I wouldn't mind McNabb but I think that he might be a bit old for a long term solution.
    Might be worth it if we can get him with no picks involved.
    We could then use either one of the 1rst or 3rd on another rook to develop.

    b. Denver - (R/P) - Cutler, Ramsey.
    I think we can rule Cutler out.
    Still wish Bryzcheapski and the front office would have given Denver what they wanted for that pick.
    You wouldn't have to read this thread then.
    ;D


    Ramsey is interesting to me.
    1rst round selection (32nd) by the Skins, 35 TD's with 30 Int's.
    Might be a bit to sloppy with the ball for the style we run but it is hard to tell without actually going back and looking at all the situations he was in when they were thrown.
    Primary backup to Cutler will probably make the asking price to high.
    Long story short, probably not a good option.

    c.
    GB. (P/R) Favreeeeee, Rodgers.
    OK.
    I only put this in there so no one would say......Hey you forgot about GB.
    Really, do you think I would wast my time even researching the possibility that we would go after one of these or that they would entertain giving us one.

    ;D Lets move on.

    d.
    Seattle. (I can't tell what they are now.
    When they have a healthy RB they are R/P).
    Matt Hasselbeck, Seneca Wallace,
    Charlie Frye.
    The only one that I think even comes close to meeting our needs would be Wallace.

    Matt isn't going anywhere no matter how much we offer and, well Frye is only on this team cause of injury and Cleveland had a better option(s).

    Wallace is a 5 year man with some pretty good stuff for the limited time he has seen the field.
    My biggest nock on him is he is 5'11" which could be a major issue behind the OL we have.
    All of them are pretty tall.
    This alone would slow down his read/react time of getting the ball out on the 3 step drops.
    Probably not an option for that reason.
    Also, Matt has been dinged over the last couple of years so I don't think Seneca is open to go anywere.

    e.
    Texans.
    (P/R).

    Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels,
    Craig Nall.
    Schaub could suck for the rest of the year, if he ever gets healthy and he isn't going anywere cause the Texans have so much invested in him.
    Sage is already into his 7th year of his alustrious career with 16 TD/13 Ints.
    Not a huge indicator of how well he protects the all/reads defenses without actually going in and looking up the game time situations.
    Nall, I couldn't find to much about but he has 4 TD's and 0 Ints in a 6 year career.
    Only thing interesting there is he learned behind Lord Favreeeeeee.
    Again, kindof interesting.

    f.
    TB.
    (R/P).

    Jeff Garcia,
    Luke McCown,
    Bruce Gradkowski.
    McCown = 4 yrs, 4TD's 7 Ints. Pretty much a no go for me based on that and the times I've seen him play. He is a bit mobile and is a tough kid, however, there is nothing else I like.
    Gradkowski,
    9 TD's/10Int's.
    Nice size, mobile but only 2 years.
    Might be a bit of a developmental guy.
    Rule him out just for that.

    g.
    Cleveland (P/R). Anderson, Quinn.
    Ok, I saved these two for last.
    Both know I want Anderson and think the team should not only ask Cleveland if Anderson is available, but they should also give up whatever the asking price is.
    Quinn isn't going anywhere for along time and if we could, the price would be way to high IMHO.

    With all that said, here is the way I would rank the guys that are out there that might be avail for us to improve the QB position.

    a.
    Anderson.
    High asking price who might not be avail (If Cleveland was smart).
    b1.
    Pennington.
    I left him out, but by popular demand he is inserted here. A good choice based on the inputs recieved.
    b2.
    McNabb.
    Problem is he isn't the healthiest guy the last few years and is a bit out of the age group.
    He would give us a pretty reliable QB but tends to throw alot.
    The staff would have to hold his audibles back a bit.
    Might help in keeping him healthy if the OL keeps improving and our RB situation stays the same.
    b3.
    Losman.
    Another one that I left out.
    Added because a poster gave a rationale reason to add him.
    c.
    Nall.
    Probably a good fit talent wise, just hasn't shown enough to be the guy.
    Still an interesting candidate.
    d.
    Gradkowski.
    Not a bad candidate.
    TB is gonna have to let somebody go. Might be a guy we can get off the waiver wire without giving up picks.
    e. Wallace.
    Almost a last kindof choice just cause of his height.
    f. Ramsey. Again, probably not a real good candidate but someone that might fit.

    I throw it out there for anyone that knows of another option (Please give rationale and keep it to guys that are on teams right now.
    No washed up has beens and no collegiate players.)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #2
    vikingivan is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.

  3. #3
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.
    Nice reply.

    Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
    My fingers were getting sore.


    I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

    That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

    With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #4
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    What is wrong with:

    1)Bollinger
    2)Jackson
    3)Holcolm

    As the depth chart?

    Bollinger has as good a chance at winning as 75% of those on your spreadsheet and he already knows the system. His body has little wear on it and he is familiar with the staff and team

    Jackson can continue to develop at his leisure

    holcolm comes in during an emergency.

  5. #5
    pixie is offline Training Camp
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
    The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
    His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

    I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

    I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
    I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

    Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
    Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
    Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.

  6. #6
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    What is wrong with:

    1)Bollinger
    2)Jackson
    3)Holcolm

    As the depth chart?

    Bollinger has as good a chance at winning as 75% of those on your spreadsheet and he already knows the system. His body has little wear on it and he is familiar with the staff and team

    Jackson can continue to develop at his leisure

    holcolm comes in during an emergency.
    My friend, great input.
    I left the Vikings QB's off the discussion if for no other reason than there is already an active thread about who should be starting.

    IMHO we should have the following lineup next year......

    QB X
    TJ
    Brooks (or a stellar rook if one is drafted).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #7
    vikingivan is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.
    Nice reply.

    Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
    My fingers were getting sore.



    I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

    That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

    With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?
    yes, his arm strenght is a worry Marr.
    But, I think he would be capable of completing some nice play action passes.
    What we need is a west coast qb that can keep the defense honest.
    One that can take advantage of 8 men in the box.
    While were at it we might as well bring laveranues Coles with him.
    I still don't understand why they want to bench him.
    He has completed 67% of his passes for an 87.5 qb rating.

  8. #8
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "vikingivan" wrote:
    I think you left out one of the most obvious candidates, Chad Pennington.
    Nice reply.

    Well, I almost put him in there, however, I couldn't cover everyone.
    My fingers were getting sore.


    I did do some digging on him 3 weeks ago and didn't like the fact that he is injury prone (arm) as well as he is basically being benched for a Rookie, who I think the Vikes screwed the Pooch on and should have on the roster right now.

    That along with Cutler gets me a bit upset.

    With that said, doesn't his arm strength worry you a bit?
    They had film on him at NFL network and showed him making some very hard to complete passes. he has very good accuracy and can get the ball downfield for anything except the 60 yard bomb. Now in the WCO you know we need someone who can complete the short to mid range passes with accuracy. He can do that very well.

    That being said, he has been beat up pretty good and that keeps me from wanting him. If we had a top offensive line in the passing game I would risk it, but we don't.

  9. #9
    pack93z's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    I think you may want to include the following to this list..

    JP Losman - Trent Edwards will be given the reins and JP is basically going to become available for the right price.
    • [li]Mobile[/li]
      [li]Big arm[/li]
      [li]Young but still got an upside[/li]
      [li]Has experience[/li]


    Chris Simms - Should be able to snag him for a decent price and he is a gamer..

    Mark Brunnell for a year.

    Do you call Jake Plummer and see if he is interested after a year away from the game?

    David Carr - Don't think he will be retained in Carolina if Fox is shown the door.. did you see the leap for the first down earlier this year.. guy has the heart to win.

    Don't give up on Bollinger or TJ just yet.. but a veteran for a year or two might be the smart play.


  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback Quandry (Possible Solution)

    "pixie" wrote:
    I would agree with your assessment overall, but I also agree that Pennington might not be a bad choice.
    The biggest concern with him is whether he can stay healthy.
    His "weak" arm doesn't bother me as much because he is accurate and to be honest with our run, we don't need a guy with a bullet for an arm... just someone who can create a threat and I believe Pennington's accuracy and smarts would do that.

    I would also put McNabb right up there as a top choice for all the reasons pointed out above.

    I think that with either one of these guys, we would do well.
    I also think our O-line could protect them especially since our opponents would have to be dealing with stopping our run AND pass, keeping them very occupied.

    Keep T-Jack and let him learn under a vet as our backup quarterback.
    Then hold onto Bollinger for our 3rd.
    Focus on obtaining one stellar WR and DE and we would be set for a respectable season.
    Ok, again a quality input that gives rationale for Pennington.
    I will add him to the list.
    Were do all think he should be, after McNabb maybe?

    Nice post my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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