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  1. #1
    Yfz01 is offline Asst. Coach
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    Quarterback information

    Part one
    Alright guys and gals.
    A lot of you believe that T-Jack should never start another game in purple but i'm here to tell you otherwise.
    Sure - this could go in one of the other threads about QBs but I think it's important.
    We all know that T-Jack is not elite like some QBs(P. Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, ect) but I went through countless stats today and he was comparable to almost every QB in the league.
    Out of QBs with over 1,000 yards passing T-Jack is fifth in passer rating.
    I'd like to compare T-Jack to some of the younger QBs in the league to see if he is really as bad as we seem to think he is.
    I'll probably add some of the guys stats that I have at the bottom at another time.
    Edit: The reason I started with these guys is because someone said that T-Jack couldn't even be compared to Sullivan or Orlovski.
    Stats

    T-jack

    Pass attempts - 149
    Completions - 88
    Comp. % - 59.1
    yards - 1056
    yards per attempt - 7.1
    Touchdowns - 9
    INTs - 2
    sacked - 14
    passer rating - 95.4

    *I'll throw in carries*
    Carries - 26
    Rushing yards - 145
    average - 5.6
    TDs - 0

    Alright Jay Cutler

    Pass attempts - 616
    Completions - 384
    Comp. % - 62.3
    Yards - 4526
    Yards per attempt - 7.3
    TD passes - 25
    INTs - 18
    sacked - 11 times
    Passer rating - 86

    Carries - 57
    Yards - 200
    average - 3.5
    TDs - 2

    JT O'Sullivan

    attempts - 220
    completions - 128
    Comp. % - 58.2
    yards - 1678
    yards per attempt - 7.6
    TDs thrown - 8
    INTs - 11 HMM... Much worse then T-Jack!
    Times sacked - 32 - Jeeze, is this Gus were talkin about???
    Passer rating - 73.6 - Oh wait, T-Jack only went against bad defenses...

    Carries - 30
    yards - 145
    average - 4.8
    TDs - 0

    Dan Orlovski

    Attempts - 255
    Completions - 143
    Completion % - 56.1
    Yards - 1616
    Yards per attempt - 6.3 - Really with CJ??
    TD's - 8
    INT's - 8
    Sacked - 14
    Passer rating - 72.6

    Carries rushing - 7
    yards - 29
    average - 4.1


    PRETTY CLOSE COMPARISONS - T-Jack has played as good (or close) or better then some other starters/backups like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Joe Flacco, Trent Edwards, Jake Delhomme, Kyle Orton, Matt Leinart, Derek Anderson, Tyler Thigpen, David Gerrard, Sage Rosenfels, JaMarcus Russell, Brett Favre, Ben Roethlisberger, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia(ehh I guess), Kerry Collins, and probably more.. I spent enough time looking up stats that I think would be comparible. A lot of these guys beat Jackson in some ways but Jackson would beat them in some ways... Take it for what you will. I know i'm not going to change anyones mind - but in my mind Jackson is a decent starting QB.


    I'll switch this up a little bit for this post.
    I was going to post stats for other QBs but i've decided after reading some comments to change it up a bit.
    I'll post the Eagles opposing QBs stats.
    Lets remember that this was by far T-Jack's worst game and it is still comparable to most of the QBs that went up against the Eagles.
    I won't post rushing stats for the QB unless it was enough to notice...

    Part 2

    Eagles opposing QB and their stats -
    Forgot yards on a bunch of them and probably sacks on a few of them
    ... Tony Romo is the only one to go over 300 yards - I believe.

    Week 1 - Marc Bulger - 14 / 26 - 0 touchdowns - 0 INTs -158 yards - 4 sacks - 73.2 QB rating.

    Week 2 - Tony Romo - 21 / 30 -
    3 TD's - 1 INT - 123 QB rating - 1 rush -4 yards

    Week 3 - Ben Roethlisberger - 13 /25 - 0 TDs - 1 INT - 8 sacks - 50.6 QB rating - 2 fumbles lost

    Week 4 - Kyle Orton - 18/34 - 3 TDs - 2 INTs - 4 sacks - 75.5 QB rating -
    2 fumbles lost

    Week 5 - Jason Campbell - 16 / 29 - 0 TDs - 0 INTs - 1 sack - 93.1 QB rating

    Week 6 - JT O'Sullivan - 17 / 30 - 0 TDs - 2 INTs - 3 sacks - 49.2 QB rating - 1 fumble lost - 4 rushes - 39 yards

    Week 8 - Matt Ryan - 23/44 - 277 yards - 2 TDs - 2 INTs - 2 sacks - 68.1 QB rating

    Week 9 - Seneca Wallace - 13/29 - 169 yards - 1 TD - 0 INTs - 4 sacks - 75 QB rating

    Week 10 - Eli Manning - 17/31 - 191 yards - 1 TD - 1 INT - 1 sack - 81.5 QB rating

    Week 11 - Ryan Fitzpatrick - 20/37 - 261 yards - 1 TD - 0 INT - 8 sacks - 89.3 QB rating

    Week 12 - Joe Flacco - 12/26 - 183 yards - 2 TDs - 0 INTs - 3 sacks - 95.5 QB rating!

    Week 13 - Kurt Warner - 21/39 - 235 yards - 3 TDs - 3 INTs - 65.7 QB rating

    Week 14 - Eli Manning - 13/27 - 123 yards - 1 TD
    - 0 INTs - 73.5 QB rating

    Week 15 - Ken Dorsey - 11/28 - 156 yards - 0 TDs - 2 INTs - 2 sacks - 28.3 QB rating

    Week 16 - Jason Campbell - 18/33 - 144 yards - 0 TDs - 0 INTs - 3 sacks - 65.7 QB rating - 2 rushes - 28 yards

    Week 17 - Tony Romo - 21/39 - 183 yards - 0 TDs - 1 INT - 3 sacks - 55.8 QB rating - 2 fumbles lost

    Divisonal Round - Tarvaris Jackson - 15/35 - 164 yards - 0 TDs -
    1 INT - 1 sack - 45.4 rating - 2 rush - 17 yards

    Alright... Now bonus stats about T-Jack. I just made him look kinda bad by posting the numbers against the Eagles - can't leave on that note...

    T-Jack has progressed every year as a starter
    Even rushing!


















    G


    GS Comp Att Pct


    Yds

    Avg



    TD Int

    Rate Att Yds
    Avg TD FUM Lost
    2008
    Minnesota Vikings
    9

    5

    88


    149 59.1 1,056 7.1 9
    2

    95.4

    26 145
    5.6

    0


    5 3
    2007
    Minnesota Vikings
    12
    12
    171


    294 58.2 1,911 6.5 9 12
    70.8

    54 260
    4.8

    3


    5 3
    2006
    Minnesota Vikings
    4

    2

    47



    81 58.0 475 5.9 2 4
    8

    62.5

    15 77

    5.1

    1



    4 1

    Part Three
    Some more interesting information - Minnesotas wide receivers are 19th in yards after catch with 1525 yards.
    First is New Orleans with 2398 yards. New Englands Matt Cassel has by far the highest amount of his yardage coming from YAC with over 56% - that's 10% higher then the Vikings.

    More comparisons between Cassel and Brady - only reason this is important is because a lot of people want Cassel.

    In 2007 Brady had :

    Behind the line : 13%
    1-10 yards : 54%
    11-20 yards : 21%
    21-30 yards : 7%
    31-41 yards : 2%
    41+ yards : 3%

    In 2008 Cassel had :

    Behind the line : 18%
    1-10 yards : 52%
    11-20 yards : 22%
    21-30 yards : 3%
    31-41 yards : 2%
    41+ yards : 1%

    In 2007 Brady's YAC% was 42%
    In 2008 Cassel's YAC% was 57%

    1-20 yards are basically identical. The difference is Cassel threw a few more behind the line whereas Brady threw a few more in the 21+ range. It's not a huge difference, though, the raw numbers behind the line are 77 for Brady and 95 for Cassel which is about 1.5 per game. For completions of passes thrown over 21 yards, Brady had 28 and Cassel had 8 - a huge percentage difference but still just a little more than 1 per game. It seems hard to believe Brady completed less than 2 passes per game last year that were thrown over 20 yards but he completed just 28. While Cassel threw a little shorter than Brady the reality is all QB throw mostly short. Cassel has a hard time hitting the deeper stuff so they use it mostly as a decoy.

    I don't really like Cassel because 21 TDs and 11 INTs with a really good offensive line and Wes Welker / Randy Moss.
    I believe that T-Jack could put up numbers similar or better with them.


    Part Four
    The Moss effect

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/13244-how-good-is-randy-moss


    Quote
    Let's go in chronological order starting with Randall Cunningham.

    (Sidebar - by the way, can anyone have lucked into a better situation than Randall did in 1998. He was out of the league in 1996 and the MIN backup in 1997. Then in 1998 Brad Johnson gets hurt and Randall comes in and, 10 times per game, he closes his eyes and throws the ball about a mile in the air - to nobody in particular - and Moss would casually sprint to where the ball was going, jump higher than anyone else, and Cunningham gets an All Pro year out of it. At the age of 35 and 6 years removed from his prime. I hope he bought Moss a nice Xmas gift that year.)

    Randall Cunningham (1 season)
    Average year:
    w/out Moss
    3,200 yards - 22 TDs
    w/Moss
    3,700 yards - 34 TDs (13th best single season total)

    Jeff George (1 season)
    Average year:
    w/out Moss
    220 yards per game - 17 TDs
    w/Moss
    282 yards per game - 23 TDs (and he only started 10 games - over 16 games this would project to 37 which would have been the 9th best ever)

    Daunte Culpepper (4 full seasons)
    Average year:
    TOTAL w/out Moss
    ,800 yards - 20 INTs, 13 TDs (again, that's his TOTALS for the 3 years since he played with Moss)
    w/Moss
    3,700 yards per season - 26 TDs (including 39 in 2004 - 6th best of all-time, 33 in 200 - 15th best)

    And, of course...
    Tom Brady (1 season)
    Average year:
    Average w/out Moss
    3,600 yards - 25 TDs (obviously, Brady was already one of the best QBs ever before Moss came along. But, his career high in TDs was 28 - which he did in 2004 and 2002. That's the 55th best total of all time)
    w/Moss
    4,900 yards - 50 TDs (The 50 TDs is, obviously, a new record. The 4,896 passing yards is second only to Dan Marino's 5,084 in 1984. Brady's previous high was 4,110 - goo for 47th)


    Again, Brady was an outstanding player before Moss and you can't attribute all of the jump in his numbers to Moss......but he sure helped.

    Of the 4 qbs, only Jeff George did not break his career high in TD passes when he played with Moss. And that's because he only started 10 games - projected out over 16 games he would have crushed his career high.

    Cunningham broke his career high by 4. Brady by 22 (22!!!). Culpepper had 26 more tds in 2004 than he has since he left Moss.

    This may all be a coincidence - or maybe Moss is just so freaking good that everyone around him benefits (unless you're wearing black and gold)



    Of course that was before Cassel but I think it would also work for him.

    http://www.weei.com/No-One-Makes-An-Impact-Like-Randy-Moss/3552800

    This second link is more about Randy Moss being the most impactful player of all time and the MVP of the Patriots.
    It's more opinion but it talks about what Randy Moss can do for QB's / WRs on the team.
    Also about how much better the running game is with Moss opening it up, ect.


    What other QBs are we possibly looking at so I can find out information about them?
    I've turned this into a thread about Cassel

  2. #2
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    Re: Quarterback information

    As you may have seen last weekend, he's not that good in real life. Ignore the numbers; He couldn't crack the Packers, Colts, Falcons or Eagles and just barely got by the Giants second stringers. He beat the 0-16 Lions and the Cardinals.

  3. #3
    Tad7's Avatar
    Tad7 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Quarterback information

    5 Star thread..all facts. Compare T-Jack's QB rating to any QB in the league and you won't be disappointed. That includes 2 games from the "old T-Jack" early in the season but that's fine. I already pointed how bad other QB's have struggled against the same team T-Jack finally struggled against. He's improved a lot, we have our QB, start looking at some other problems.
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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  4. #4
    Tad7's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback information

    "DeathtoDenny" wrote:
    As you may have seen last weekend, he's not that good in real life. Ignore the numbers; He couldn't crack the Packers, Colts, Falcons or Eagles and just barely got by the Giants second stringers. He beat the 0-16 Lions and the Cardinals.
    Colts and Packers are old news

    He did more than his fair share of good in the Falcons game. 2 TD's, no picks, 233 yards passing. 82 yards rushing.

    A lot of Giants defense was regular starters. And either way, he brought them back from 9 down in the 4th quarter.

    As far as the Eagles, http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=50004.0

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  5. #5
    Rambro's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback information

    "DeathtoDenny" wrote:
    As you may have seen last weekend, he's not that good in real life. Ignore the numbers; He couldn't crack the Packers, Colts, Falcons or Eagles and just barely got by the Giants second stringers. He beat the 0-16 Lions and the Cardinals.
    Wow... I'll give you all those other games completely ignoring the fact they weren't entirely his fault, but did you eve watch the Falcons game? He played out of his mind and if we could get him to play at that level all the time we would be set. 2 of the fumbles in that game were not his fault, the hand off to Adrian Peterson and the snap that wizzed over his head from Birk. Regardless he played amazing that game.

  6. #6
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    Re: Quarterback information

    "Tad7" wrote:
    "DeathtoDenny" wrote:
    As you may have seen last weekend, he's not that good in real life. Ignore the numbers; He couldn't crack the Packers, Colts, Falcons or Eagles and just barely got by the Giants second stringers. He beat the 0-16 Lions and the Cardinals.
    Colts and Packers are old news

    He did more than his fair share of good in the Falcons game. 2 TD's, no picks, 233 yards passing. 82 yards rushing.

    A lot of Giants defense was regular starters. And either way, he brought them back from 9 down in the 4th quarter.

    As far as the Eagles, http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=50004.0

    Old news because he was benched for 11 games.

  7. #7
    Tad7's Avatar
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    Re: Quarterback information

    "DeathtoDenny" wrote:
    "Tad7" wrote:
    "DeathtoDenny" wrote:
    As you may have seen last weekend, he's not that good in real life. Ignore the numbers; He couldn't crack the Packers, Colts, Falcons or Eagles and just barely got by the Giants second stringers. He beat the 0-16 Lions and the Cardinals.
    Colts and Packers are old news

    He did more than his fair share of good in the Falcons game. 2 TD's, no picks, 233 yards passing. 82 yards rushing.

    A lot of Giants defense was regular starters. And either way, he brought them back from 9 down in the 4th quarter.

    As far as the Eagles, http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=50004.0

    Old news because he was benched for 11 games.
    Correct because he was a different quarterback after coming back.
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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  8. #8
    CrazyVikingsFan is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Quarterback information

    Facts are good to a point. You can throw all the facts you want at me and I still wont be convinced. Being a good football player is not only just about the stats its about winning football games. It's called having the Intangibles. Jackson just doesnt have them. He doesnt have that winning factor that we need at that position. We need a guy that knows how to win. I just know that if we stick with TJack we'll be good consistantly and make a push for a couple of years but unless he shows me something he hasnt already I dont see anyway we can win the big game.

  9. #9
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Quarterback information

    "CrazyVikingsFan" wrote:
    Facts are good to a point. You can throw all the facts you want at me and I still wont be convinced. Being a good football player is not only just about the stats its about winning football games. It's called having the Intangibles. Jackson just doesnt have them. He doesnt have that winning factor that we need at that position. We need a guy that knows how to win. I just know that if we stick with TJack we'll be good consistantly and make a push for a couple of years but unless he shows me something he hasnt already I dont see anyway we can win the big game.
    +1

    Besides, comparing Tarvaris's last four games (which were against two poor defenses and the Giants' backups) to Cutler's entire season is not fair. It's apples and oranges.

  10. #10
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    Re: Quarterback information

    T-Jack does have intangibles to win. He came back against Detroit, came back against New York , flat out dominated Arizona, and kept us alive against Atlanta in a sloppy game.

    He has what it takes to win games.

    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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