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  1. #11
    Caine's Avatar
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    This is the sad truth of the QB shuffle in the NFL.

    We are in a pickle. We need a QB to build around, and we're now so desperate that we've reached twice in the draft (Jackson in the 2nd round, Ponder in the 1st), and pulled in two out-of-gas veterans (Favre and McNabb) to try and jump start the franchise.

    Nothing has worked for several reasons.

    1: "Our team is not committed to the idea of bringing in a PREMIER QB. "

    Washington was...and went after RGIII. Denver took a chance with Manning. A few years back, New Orleans went after Brees. New York mortgaged the farm for Eli Manning. And so on and so forth. Granted, not every team has hit the lotto by taking chances - Seattle overpaid for Flynn, but wound up hitting gold (so far) with Wilson.

    We have played it cautious, somewhat, and squandered season after season hoping that our limited reaches would pay off. They haven't.

    We need to target our guy, and go after him. REALLY go after him. If taht guy isn't in this draft, then we find someone (Alex Smith?) to carry us through until our guy IS in the draft. Then we get him.

    "2: Our franchise isn't equipped to develop that QB anyway."

    Does anyone really think Bill Musgrave is going to bring out the best in a young QB? The only thing this guy has over the Chiller is a different last name. He's not even an upgrade over Bevell...and that shouldn't have been tough to do.


    3: "Because our Head Coach is incompetent."

    OK, that's a bit too harsh. He's simply not the right guy to lead this franchise. He's not creative enough to find a staff who has the fire to win, and he seems to be completely without any sort of fire himself. He's like oatmeal. Safe, predictable, and boring.

    Everyone should be familiar by now with my position of the Wilfs (Stay in the owners box and enjoy a nice hot cup of STFU!!!) and my curiosity/indecision about Spielman (We don't know if he's worth a crap or not because we haven't seen HIM pick anyone important yet). until we address the question marks at the TOP, everything below is going to continue to struggle. It's time for Spielman to take the reigns - for good or for ill - and bring in another HC and staff. It's time for this franchise to commit itself to pushing forward, instead of committing itself to....oatmeal.

    Caine

  2. #12
    purple pain is offline Waterboy
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    I think you really have to look at the whole picture. When Ponder had Harvin to throw to he looked like a young QB that had potential, but when you take away the only mid to deep threat & don't get NFL level play from your other receivers then of course your gonna look bad. We need to go out and get a legitimate deep threat to pair up with Harvin, team that up with TE Rudolph & we could make a good run next year. Ponder needs to speed up his decision making & learn how to move within the pocket. I don't think he will ever be a great QB but I think he has the potential to be at a Shaub level.

  3. #13
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    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reignman View Post
    He's so bad they're basically asking him to go out there and just not lose the game now. To me that's just a huge slap in the face of AD and everyone else on this team. I mean just think where we'd be if we even had a half decent QB. We're probably 10-4 and talking about a possible 1st round bye. This team always seems to be 1 piece away from being great and this time that 1 piece is a QB.

    Maybe statistically he's not the worst QB in the league, but come on, most of his completions and yards come off bubble screens and check downs. Do you really think he's going to get it done when we need him to throw? Of course not. If AD wasn't having the season he's having and we needed to rely on Ponder more, we'd be no better than last year. We're probably sitting at 3-11 right now.
    I don't think Ponder is the worst QB in the NFL, but I do think he is solidly in the bottom third. I also agree that we could have two more wins if we have a better QB. I also think we could have two more wins if we had better WRs.

    But there are a couple of other things I think we need to also state.

    First, if we had a better passing game, AD wouldn't be having the year he is. He even said on NFLN that he likes facing 8 men in the box because it means that once he is past the first line of defense he sees daylight. A lot of AD's yards have been off from big plays where he breaks into the secondary.

    Also, the idea that most of Ponder's yards have come off from bubble screens and check downs is simply wrong. While screens and checks do account for more of Ponder's yardage than I would expect to see from a QB, his favorite pass is short and over the middle. Usually to a TE or a slot.

    And finally, I don't think the change in game plan for using Ponder is a slap in the face to anyone - in fact I think it is the opposite. The coaching staff has stopped asking Ponder to do something he cannot, and as a result we have started winning games. The OC is designing a game plan to fit the players, not trying to Childress it. I actually have a little bit of hope after the last two games. If we can continue to play decent defense and compliment AD with a low octane but low mistake offense, we might actually be playing post season football...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #14
    Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple pain View Post
    I think you really have to look at the whole picture. When Ponder had Harvin to throw to he looked like a young QB that had potential, but when you take away the only mid to deep threat & don't get NFL level play from your other receivers then of course your gonna look bad. We need to go out and get a legitimate deep threat to pair up with Harvin, team that up with TE Rudolph & we could make a good run next year. Ponder needs to speed up his decision making & learn how to move within the pocket. I don't think he will ever be a great QB but I think he has the potential to be at a Shaub level.
    Leaving off the entire "Top down" problem string, and looking ONLY at the WR/QB dynamic, we're STILL in a world of crap.

    Aside from Harvin, we have NO quality WR's. We don't JUST need a deep threat...we need an entirely new Receiver Corps. Without that, Harvin is AGAIN on an island, and we're AGAIN forcing the ball to him. This leads to more short, dump off routes or come-backs. We don't stretch the field, we don't force the Defense to play back.

    We need not just a deep threat, but we also need receivers who can create separation/opportunities. Part of Ponder's problem has been a COMPLETE lack of anyone to throw to - the Vikings gave him NOTHING to help make him successful.

    Honestly, if we ONLY addressed our WR issues this next season, we could create a team to be feared.

    of course, we'd then have to fire Frazier and Musgrave and bring in someone with a clue how to use it....

    Caine

  5. #15
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    Fixing our WR corps is easy.
    Sign Bowe or Jennings.
    Draft 1 of the 4 top Wrs in this draft. At this point, i don't care who as its too earlier to say
    Resign Simpson to another 1 year deal.

  6. #16
    PacNWVike's Avatar
    PacNWVike is offline Team Alumni
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    I'll stand with the minority here and back Ponder. He's extremely intelligent and can learn the game if he has a mentor. Who is his backup? Who is the old sage on the roster who can help him? The line is giving him basic protection now, but without Harvin, who does he really have to throw to? Rudolph is good, but not a deep threat. The other clowns have the football hit them on the numbers and it's dropped. Give him time to develop... We are not ready for a run for The Ring... A few more good drafts and experience for the newbs...
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  7. #17
    PacNWVike's Avatar
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    I'll stand with the minority here and back Ponder. He's extremely intelligent and can learn the game if he has a mentor. Who is his backup? Who is the old sage on the roster who can help him? The line is giving him basic protection now, but without Harvin, who does he really have to throw to? Rudolph is good, but not a deep threat. The other clowns have the football hit them on the numbers and it's dropped. Give him time to develop... We are not ready for a run for The Ring... A few more good drafts and experience for the newbs... Remember Peyton's first few years?
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  8. #18
    Reignman is offline Asst. Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Reignman View Post
    He's so bad they're basically asking him to go out there and just not lose the game now. To me that's just a huge slap in the face of AD and everyone else on this team. I mean just think where we'd be if we even had a half decent QB. We're probably 10-4 and talking about a possible 1st round bye. This team always seems to be 1 piece away from being great and this time that 1 piece is a QB.

    Maybe statistically he's not the worst QB in the league, but come on, most of his completions and yards come off bubble screens and check downs. Do you really think he's going to get it done when we need him to throw? Of course not. If AD wasn't having the season he's having and we needed to rely on Ponder more, we'd be no better than last year. We're probably sitting at 3-11 right now.
    BS
    Can you be more specific?

    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I don't think Ponder is the worst QB in the NFL, but I do think he is solidly in the bottom third. I also agree that we could have two more wins if we have a better QB. I also think we could have two more wins if we had better WRs.

    But there are a couple of other things I think we need to also state.

    First, if we had a better passing game, AD wouldn't be having the year he is. He even said on NFLN that he likes facing 8 men in the box because it means that once he is past the first line of defense he sees daylight. A lot of AD's yards have been off from big plays where he breaks into the secondary.

    Also, the idea that most of Ponder's yards have come off from bubble screens and check downs is simply wrong. While screens and checks do account for more of Ponder's yardage than I would expect to see from a QB, his favorite pass is short and over the middle. Usually to a TE or a slot.

    And finally, I don't think the change in game plan for using Ponder is a slap in the face to anyone - in fact I think it is the opposite. The coaching staff has stopped asking Ponder to do something he cannot, and as a result we have started winning games. The OC is designing a game plan to fit the players, not trying to Childress it. I actually have a little bit of hope after the last two games. If we can continue to play decent defense and compliment AD with a low octane but low mistake offense, we might actually be playing post season football...
    That's a good point about the season AD is having, and I've thought of it too, but I think he'd still be having the same season. He'd just have fewer long runs, but he'd have fewer short runs as well. Plus with a better passing game a lot more of our drives would have been sustained. We've had a lot of 3 n outs this year and our opponents have had a lot of TOP. IMO the only reason AD hasn't already broken the record was because he was on a touch count the first half of the season.

    My main point is a lot of Ponders passes are short and a lot of the yards come off yac. We've all seen how painfully inaccurate he is when he has to throw more than 20 yards down field. The fact that the decisions makers have finally realized Ponder is pitiful and AD is our only chance is the slap in the face.

    More specifically in those games where Ponder was below 100 well into the 2nd half, he should have been pulled in favor of a guy (Webb) who might have given us a better chance to win. I can think of 4 close games off the top of my head where Ponder should have been benched in the 2nd half. I'm not saying Webb comes in and wins all 4, but clearly Ponder wasn't getting it done and if Webb comes in and even wins us 1 or 2 of those games, we're talking about a division title and possibly a first round bye.

  9. #19
    smegmavike is offline Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by PacNWVike View Post
    I'll stand with the minority here and back Ponder. He's extremely intelligent and can learn the game if he has a mentor. Who is his backup? Who is the old sage on the roster who can help him? The line is giving him basic protection now, but without Harvin, who does he really have to throw to? Rudolph is good, but not a deep threat. The other clowns have the football hit them on the numbers and it's dropped. Give him time to develop... We are not ready for a run for The Ring... A few more good drafts and experience for the newbs... Remember Peyton's first few years?
    You just as well back Ponder, he will be the starter next year.
    I do think they will dump one of their developmental QB's next year and bring in a veteran back up.
    Good to see you posting again.

  10. #20
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    Total QB Rating for Week 15

    Ponder was second only to Russell Wilson this week with a 96.9 Total QBR. His fantasy football ranking didn't hit the top 25 among QB's this week.

    Note this is ESPN's Total QBR and not the typical QBR. The total QBR tries to measure the impact the QB has in helping his team win (what they call clutch-weighted) vs. the fantasy stats that were put up. Take it for what it's worth, but for those who are not familiar, here's what they are trying to track with this metric:

    Total QBR Basics
    A quick primer on the fundamentals of Total Quarterback Rating:

    Scoring: 0-100, from low to high. An average QB would be at 50.
    Win Probability: All QB plays are scored based on how much they contribute to a win. By determining expected point totals for almost any situation, Total QBR is able to apply points to a quarterback based on every type of play he would be involved in.
    Dividing Credit: Total QBR factors in such things as overthrows, underthrows, yards after the catch and more to accurately determine how much a QB contributes to each play.
    Clutch Index: How critical a certain play is based on when it happens in a game is factored into the score.

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