Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34
  1. #11
    vikesrgreat2 is offline Starter
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wausau, WI
    Posts
    210
    Blog Entries
    1
    I think that Sage Rosenfels would have some decent trade value, and he should be traded to a team that needs a backup QB. He would make a nice veteran backup QB for another team, and perhaps we can net another 2013 draft pick. Then I would suggest Webb to be the #2 QB (based on athleticism and potential) and Bethel-Thompson to be the #3 QB. Then we have 3 young QB's to develop going forward.

  2. #12
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    This.

    This here I've heard several times here now & I think people continue to say it for the sake of saying it, yet I have no idea what they are basing it off of unless it's 1 game.

    Webb has started a total of 2 regular season games times according to NFL.com, meaning that teams have prepared only a maximum of twice knowing he was going to start.

    In start #1 we won 26-17 against the Eagles & he completed 65.4% of his passes & scored a TD.

    In start #2 we lost 20-13 against the Lions & he completed 62.5% of his passes & threw 1 pick.

    So where does the "just awful" part come from from?

    Ponder completed less than 58% of his passes in 6 of his 10 starts. I'm not saying Webb is better than Ponder, just trying to point out how IMO, it's ridiculous to claim "Webb is just awful when a team has time to prepare for him" based on 1 loss where he played better than several of Ponder's losses.
    This is because you are just looking at stat sheets, and not the actual games. And you are doing it with a healthy dose of confirmation bias as well.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #13
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,207
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    This is because you are just looking at stat sheets, and not the actual games. And you are doing it with a healthy dose of confirmation bias as well.
    No, I am not doing it based on bias. What bias?

    We are talking about two games here. Count them...2.

    I wish people would make up their mind as to how many starts it takes to fairly judge a QB & quit using the double-standards.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #14
    seaniemck7's Avatar
    seaniemck7 is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    1,453
    I am torn. On one hand, it makes sense to keep Sage. Having 3 years of NFL experience at the QB position on your roster is rather scary which is exactly what we would have if we cut Sage and kept MBT.

    On the other hand, I would hate to lose out on young talent because Spielman, stubornly, STILL wants to justify putting Sage on his roster for like the 5th time. I have always liked Sage and felt he got a raw deal the first time (farvre). However, if we are starting Sage who technically is our #3 QB, we aren't winning shit anyway.

    Webb is tough to defend even when you have "time to prepare for him." He is just a young QB that while inconsistent can be effective. I like where he is right now in his role. I wish people would stop talking about him at WR. Splitting someone out wide on the line of scrimmage does not make you a WR. Just ask Matt Jones.

    That being said, I reeeaally like MBT. Out all of the young backups in the preseason, Foles (PHI), Davis (STL) and MBT have been my favorites to watch (I have caught a good number of re-airs on NFLN). MBT has a lot of potential. I do not see him getting to practice squad ala Thigpen.

    So, if you had to ask me? Sorry Sage; you're out. However I think Rickyboy will jettison MBT to keep Sage employed.

  5. #15
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,207
    Quote Originally Posted by vikesrgreat2 View Post
    I think that Sage Rosenfels would have some decent trade value, and he should be traded to a team that needs a backup QB. He would make a nice veteran backup QB for another team, and perhaps we can net another 2013 draft pick. Then I would suggest Webb to be the #2 QB (based on athleticism and potential) and Bethel-Thompson to be the #3 QB. Then we have 3 young QB's to develop going forward.
    I don't think Sage holds any trade value since this is his 7th time starting with a different team from a prior season, but if he did we'd have to keep him on the roster to make that trade. I don't think anyone will make a trade before the cuts.

    I believe Ponder can be a good QB, but don't believe we have a good enough WR corp that it takes to help him succeed. For that reason, I think we're looking at a 8-8 season at best.

    If Ponder should go down, perhaps Sage might give us a better chance to win over Webb or MBT, but I don't believe we would win more games with Sage, than we do with Ponder. Sage doesn't give us the added advantage of mobility & despite looking decent in his last couple of preseason showings, is inconsistent as well.

    Sage also carries a higher price tag. I think the extra salary money we'd have might help us pick up another player for another position we might desperately need with some of the holes & injuries we have.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #16
    vikinggreg's Avatar
    vikinggreg is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Great White North
    Posts
    4,734
    IMHO if you look at the guys that can use the playbook and play the position as more of a pocket passer it hits Webb with the lower grade than the others. I hate to say that cause of the athlete that Webb is and many other things he brings to the table but to setup gadgets and other ways of using him that don't develop him into what is needed for the current system makes him more of a round peg for a square hole. While on the other hand Sage is probably a 1 maybe 2 year player at this point he is more of the traditional player at the position that could keep the team rolling for some games without having the rest of the offense changing.

  7. #17
    Minniman's Avatar
    Minniman is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,369
    Webb should be a running back.

    He did not learn to be a pocket passer in college. His athleticism actually hurt his pro game.

    If Webb remains a QB, he needs to learn the position better. He needs live snaps, and he cannot get that in the NFL as a backup.

  8. #18
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    West Fargo, ND
    Posts
    17,601
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    No, I am not doing it based on bias. What bias?

    We are talking about two games here. Count them...2.

    I wish people would make up their mind as to how many starts it takes to fairly judge a QB & quit using the double-standards.
    Everyone has bias. You do, I do, Fraizer does... It is extremely difficult to form an opinion without it.

    And there IS no magic number to the number of starts. If there were, then every single QB who has never seen a start is being unfairly judged. There is so very much more to it than that.

    Look at the style of play. Webb is not a pocket passer - he is a passer/runner hybrid. This kind of style can be exploited, especially if he favors one side or the other to scramble (which he does). When he tried to sit in the pocket, he looked horrible (aka second preseason game). When he was allowed to move in a way that is natural to him, he is better - but will be extremely limited in the offense that he can run. You can't have short accurate passes when you are throwing on the run. So that leaves in a situation where a WR needs to beat coverage to present a bigger target, or one where the WRs need to be in a crossing or short route on the same side of the field as the QB. Webb is right handed, so he will struggle when scrambling to his left - so load up on the right side and force the run from his blind side.

    A mobile QB is a good thing to have - they can escape trouble when they need to. But the QB also needs to be able to sit in the pocket the majority of the time and place the ball. Webb simply isn't there. This is based on college, practice, starts, backups, and every other ounce of football that I have seen from Webb. If you take a step back and look again, you might see it too.

    Now Ponder has had more starts but less overall time as a Viking for people to evaluate him. Some have decided already, most have not. There is still a lot of unknown when it comes to him. What does that mean in regards to Webb? NOTHING. Ponder is Ponder and Webb is Webb. They are two different people, and the criteria for judging them is going to be at least a little different. It isn't a double standard - it's life.

    I don't hear you complaining about Asiata or Hilliard or DeGeare or any of the other players who are likely to be cut despite not getting as many starts as their counterparts. Why Webb and not them? It is because Webb is a player that you are high on, so all of a sudden it is double standards and complaints - and there is your bias.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    PackSux!'s Avatar
    PackSux! is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Bottom line for me is, I'd hate for MBT to be stuck on the practice squad. I believe he'd be snatched up rather quickly.
    I am with you on this one Singer. I see some serious talent with MBT and would hate to see him get snatched up if we try to sneak him onto the practice squad.

    To me its either Webb or Sage that have to be cut, or Webb being moved to another position but I don't see that happenning.

  10. #20
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,207
    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Everyone has bias. You do, I do, Fraizer does... It is extremely difficult to form an opinion without it.

    And there IS no magic number to the number of starts. If there were, then every single QB who has never seen a start is being unfairly judged. There is so very much more to it than that.

    Look at the style of play. Webb is not a pocket passer - he is a passer/runner hybrid. This kind of style can be exploited, especially if he favors one side or the other to scramble (which he does). When he tried to sit in the pocket, he looked horrible (aka second preseason game). When he was allowed to move in a way that is natural to him, he is better - but will be extremely limited in the offense that he can run. You can't have short accurate passes when you are throwing on the run. So that leaves in a situation where a WR needs to beat coverage to present a bigger target, or one where the WRs need to be in a crossing or short route on the same side of the field as the QB. Webb is right handed, so he will struggle when scrambling to his left - so load up on the right side and force the run from his blind side.

    A mobile QB is a good thing to have - they can escape trouble when they need to. But the QB also needs to be able to sit in the pocket the majority of the time and place the ball. Webb simply isn't there. This is based on college, practice, starts, backups, and every other ounce of football that I have seen from Webb. If you take a step back and look again, you might see it too.

    Now Ponder has had more starts but less overall time as a Viking for people to evaluate him. Some have decided already, most have not. There is still a lot of unknown when it comes to him. What does that mean in regards to Webb? NOTHING. Ponder is Ponder and Webb is Webb. They are two different people, and the criteria for judging them is going to be at least a little different. It isn't a double standard - it's life.

    I don't hear you complaining about Asiata or Hilliard or DeGeare or any of the other players who are likely to be cut despite not getting as many starts as their counterparts. Why Webb and not them? It is because Webb is a player that you are high on, so all of a sudden it is double standards and complaints - and there is your bias.
    Personally I like both Ponder & Webb & if they were trying to shove Ponder out the door at this point, I'd be screaming too. There goes your bias. I don't favor Webb over Ponder, I believe both should stay along with MBT.

    I have been watching Webb. It appears to me as if our new QB coach is trying to get him to be more of a pocket passer. I haven't seen him take off running like some people claim he's been doing. In fact, he's only ran the ball 6 times in 4 games, which is less than Ponder ran in 3 games.

    He looked bad on his first outing, but I felt he looked a lot better a week a go. He was & has completed passes on the run & stayed in the pocket & completed passes as well. A week ago he was 6 of 8 making some really nice passes. One was thrown away & the another was a little off target.

    Last night one he threw away and he had a couple dropped on him. I think if we finally have a decent QB coach in there now, let him do his work and see where it goes. The last one certainly didn't do well.

    As far as Asiata, Hilliard & DeGeare are concerned, I don't think Asiata will be cut. Hilliard & DeGeare probably may be cut, but that doesn't mean they'll never amount to anything as far as starting material goes. With Webb, that's exactly what some are claiming.

    Therein lie the difference.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •