Ponder

**Purple Floyd** · 12-07-2012, 07:47 AM

Maybe we can right the wrong of that draft and trade Ponder to KC for Stanzi and get the guy we should have had in the first place.

**kevoncox** · 12-07-2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

You roll the dice on EVERY player in the draft - there is no such thing as a sure thing.

That doesn't change the fact that I have yet to see 1 draft with 5 Pro Bowl quality QBs. Not even the 1983 Quarter back class yielded that amount of quality Qbs. My point was you don't take the 5th best player at a position in the first when the top player at another position is available. Its simple common sense. BTW can you check the last couple of years and find a QB select high that failed. Bradford is a hit, Cam is a hit, Stafford hit, Luck/Griffen hit, Ryan hit. You have to go back to the 2007 draft to find a QB bust that was drafted that high. The bottom line is, things have changed in scouting, teams are getting better at spotting top Qb talent and having them succeed even on poor teams.

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

First you suggest trading back. I love how trading up or down is everybody's answer in the draft as if all you had to do was suggest a trade and you would have teams lining up. It isn't that easy.

I suggested drafting or trading back. I see you missed that part. Draft another position, hence the players I listed, or trade back for the Cobbs and Torrey Smiths of the draft. Simple huh.

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

Second, the problem was that QBs WERE going off from the board, and we needed a QB. Had we drafted any of those players listed instead of a QB in that draft, people - including you - would be lining up bitching that we didn't address the QB position. Hell, in this draft there were people - including you - that complained that we didn't draft a WR higher than we did, despite the fact that Kalil, Smith, Robison and Wright are all looking like good picks now. People - including you - would have been calling for Frazier's and Spielman's heads if we didn't draft a QB or drafted one in a low round and settled for McNabb (like we did).

I don't are that Qbs are going off the board. That's the problem. Good teams don't panic and take ANYONE. They definitely don't do it at QB!!!!!! If after the draft. he simply said we took the best player available because we did not see a QB that we targeted, I would have been fine. I knew Luck and Griffen were coming the following season. This isn't WR, this isn't CB. This is the QB position. You better damn make sure the guy you select is YOUR GUY not just A GUY. We selected a guy! It's the reason the Cards passed on AD because OTs were flying off the board

and instead of paring Fitzgerald, Boldin and Kurt Warner, they ended up with Levi Brown

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

Hindsight is 20/20 and we seem to like to use it here as a magnifying glass to pick apart any mistake made. I am curious, if I go back to the draft threads from 2010, who were YOU clamoring for? If I go back to the draft threads from this year, who were YOU clamoring for? There are several people here I can think offhard who were big Gabbart fans. Or big Blackmon fans. Or big Newton fans. Or big Young fans... And yet we never seem to apply the hindsight filter to ourselves.

My draft pick was Mallet and Cam. The only Qbs I wanted. Gabbert was a 3rd choice and I did get excited when I saw him fall. Did you just include Cam Newton in a list of bad players. Did you include Blackmon? I don't get it. It's not about Hindsight, its about common sense. Do you really believe that Ponder was "our guy"? If not we drafted in error.

**kevoncox** · 12-07-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

You've seen us scout talent. I'm willing to bet Ponder was our #2 or 3 guy on the board, behind Luck (unattainable) and RGIII.
Did I miss something? When did we try to make him a starter? He never cracked backup spot.

You said Ponder was on the board with Luck and Griffen (lol) in the same post you correct me for saying we tried to make Booty a starter.

**NodakPaul** · 12-07-2012, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by kevoncox

My draft pick was Mallet and Cam. The only Qbs I wanted. Gabbert was a 3rd choice and I did get excited when I saw him fall. Did you just include Cam Newton in a list of bad players. Did you include Blackmon? I don't get it. It's not about Hindsight, its about common sense. Do you really believe that Ponder was "our guy"? If not we drafted in error.

Only snipping this part of your response because I more or less agree with the other parts.

Well yes, I do include Newton and Blackmon in the list of picks. Have you been watching Newton? If you don't like Ponder's play or stats this year, you probably shouldn't look at Newtons - you won't be happy.

And not only has Blackmon underwhelmed this season (he didn't catch a TD until November), but he is also sitting on his second DUI in three years. He certainly has potential though, especially with the way he played against Houston.

Anyway, to be honest, yes - I do think that Ponder was "our guy", or at least "one of our guys." I think that the front office had a list of two or three QBs that they were targeting, including Gabbart and Ponder. When it became apparent that all of those guys were going to be gone in the first round, they pulled the trigger. Was it a reach? Probably, but I think it was a necessary one at the time.

**kevoncox** · 12-07-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

Only snipping this part of your response because I more or less agree with the other parts.

Well yes, I do include Newton and Blackmon in the list of picks. Have you been watching Newton? If you don't like Ponder's play or stats this year, you probably shouldn't look at Newtons - you won't be happy.

The purple drank is still on your lips my friend.
Ponder is playing with easily a top 10 RB of ALL TIME. His passing lanes are wide open and he cannot complete a pass past 10 yards to save his life.

Cam has 0 running game to count on. WIlliams has disappeared and Stewart is hurt. With that said, he has thrown for over 600 more yards or 3 additional Ponder games. I don't love his accuracy compared to Ponder but I believe it could go up with Peterson rushing for 1400 for the Panthers and him not averaging 8.3 yards per attempt compared to Ponders 6.0

Would you trade Ponder for Cam?

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

And not only has Blackmon underwhelmed this season (he didn't catch a TD until November), but he is also sitting on his second DUI in three years. He certainly has potential though, especially with the way he played against Houston.

The same Blackmon that has 557 yards and 3 TDs? in 12 games. He will end the season with around 800 yards which is more than most of our WRs get (except Harvin and Rice). He is far from a bust. He is just having an average rookie season. Seeing that he has played without a RB like MDJ opening space for him, its not surprising.

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

Anyway, to be honest, yes - I do think that Ponder was "our guy", or at least "one of our guys." I think that the front office had a list of two or three QBs that they were targeting, including Gabbart and Ponder. When it became apparent that all of those guys were going to be gone in the first round, they pulled the trigger. Was it a reach? Probably, but I think it was a necessary one at the time.

You draft Wr like that. You draft Cb like that. You don't draft QB like that. Its not just another position and you have to respect the position. He's the owner's best friend and the face of your franchise. Colts understood this and are 8-4. Skins understood this and are looking to make the playoffs. Event

**tastywaves** · 12-07-2012, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by kevoncox

You draft Wr like that. You draft Cb like that. You don't draft QB like that. Its not just another position and you have to respect the position. He's the owner's best friend and the face of your franchise. Colts understood this and are 8-4. Skins understood this and are looking to make the playoffs. Event

Problem is the year we were looking for a QB, there wasn't a Luck or an RGIII, perhaps even a Tannehill. The Colts didn't have to think too hard on Luck, he was the consensus no brainer for the entire football world, no way they were giving that pick up. No great thinking on their part other than to tank the season before to ensure they got the #1 pick.

Washington did put a lot on the line to get RGIII, and it appears to have been a good decision. They were in desperate need for a QB, and RGIII looked to be worth the price. Caine if I remember right was pushing the idea of going after him last year, one that I supported. Only because Luck and RGIII both looked like generational prospects. Not because Ponder was considered a bust, but the ceiling for RGIII looked much higher than Ponder.

This year, I'm afraid, if we decide to target a QB as our #1 priority in the draft, we could very well get another mediocre talent on a team with no proven ability to groom a young QB. May still be worth a selection early, but not sure I would look for a lot of movement to grab one of them, just because we have an issue at QB.

**NodakPaul** · 12-07-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by kevoncox

Would you trade Ponder for Cam?

No. I don't think either are the solution for their respective teams.

Originally Posted by kevoncox

You draft Wr like that. You draft Cb like that. You don't draft QB like that. Its not just another position and you have to respect the position. He's the owner's best friend and the face of your franchise. Colts understood this and are 8-4. Skins understood this and are looking to make the playoffs. Event

Not disagreeing. But your solution of just signing a vet (McNabb?) in 2010 and waiting until 2011 to draft a QB would have gotten you fired in 2010. I'm sure the NEXT GM and head coach would have appreciated it though.

Sometimes the ideal solution isn't there.

I think that we have the opportunity to do something smart at the QB position this offseason. There are three options out there that I think would elevate the position.

**smegmavike** · 12-07-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

No. I don't think either are the solution for their respective teams.

Not disagreeing. But your solution of just signing a vet (McNabb?) in 2010 and waiting until 2011 to draft a QB would have gotten you fired in 2010. I'm sure the NEXT GM and head coach would have appreciated it though.

Sometimes the ideal solution isn't there.

I think that we have the opportunity to do something smart at the QB position this offseason. There are three options out there that I think would elevate the position.

I suspect Spielman will stick with Ponder next year and perhaps bring in a veteran as a back up.
They will say young Christian just needs more weapons around him to be successful.
And though there is an element of truth to that assertion, Petersons' season should have made things much easier for Ponder.

**kevoncox** · 12-07-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by tastywaves

Problem is the year we were looking for a QB, there wasn't a Luck or an RGIII, perhaps even a Tannehill. The Colts didn't have to think too hard on Luck, he was the consensus no brainer for the entire football world, no way they were giving that pick up. No great thinking on their part other than to tank the season before to ensure they got the #1 pick.

Washington did put a lot on the line to get RGIII, and it appears to have been a good decision. They were in desperate need for a QB, and RGIII looked to be worth the price. Caine if I remember right was pushing the idea of going after him last year, one that I supported. Only because Luck and RGIII both looked like generational prospects. Not because Ponder was considered a bust, but the ceiling for RGIII looked much higher than Ponder.

This year, I'm afraid, if we decide to target a QB as our #1 priority in the draft, we could very well get another mediocre talent on a team with no proven ability to groom a young QB. May still be worth a selection early, but not sure I would look for a lot of movement to grab one of them, just because we have an issue at QB.

Waves,
I know that year we were looking for a QB but if someone with "it" isn't there, you don't pull the deal. You have the balls to go to ownership and say "Hey our guy isn't there." Drafting a QB will set this franchise back a couple of years. I rather take the chance, communicate why we passed but selected a better player, than to pick a pig and try and put lipstick on her.

**kevoncox** · 12-07-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

No. I don't think either are the solution for their respective teams.

Not disagreeing. But your solution of just signing a vet (McNabb?) in 2010 and waiting until 2011 to draft a QB would have gotten you fired in 2010. I'm sure the NEXT GM and head coach would have appreciated it though.

Sometimes the ideal solution isn't there.

I think that we have the opportunity to do something smart at the QB position this offseason. There are three options out there that I think would elevate the position.

So the QB that broke almost ever Rookie QB record isn't good enough for you. I get it. I would have thought his season last year would have shut a lot of the irrational disbelief up.

Actually it wouldn't have. Think back. Fraser had just been named head coach. Webb had considerable playing time in lieu of Farve. He and Spielman could have communicated to management, while telling the public Webb was going to get his shot to prove he could be the teams QB of the future. Have him and a Vet (David Garrad) battle it out. He plays and stinks it up? You draft high, He plays and plays average, you trade up, becomes the next Brady, you win! The only stupid move to make is the one we made... we drafted a guy at 12 that was maybe the 100th best player in the draft. Two Qbs drafted behind hims looks better in Dalton and the guy on the 9ers. I wager Mallett is a better QB as well. Shame on you Ricky...

I don't think you get it. We are stuck with Ponder for 2 more seasons. They aren't going to make a change this season no matter how bad he looks. Its going to be chalked up as growing pains. Next season would be his "first short irking the coach season" and the season after that would be the first "open comp at camp" that he will win. After that we might look at a new QB. 4-5 years of franchise killing mistakes is what happens when you draft the wrong QB.