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Thread: Ponder

  1. #21
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    Like it or not, Spielman will bring in Alex Smith next year after spending high picks on new receivers in the draft. I foresee some sort of Ponder / Smith QB competition in typical Vikings style. Probably a new OC. Mark my words. Alex Smith will be a Viking. Spielman drafts and signs "game managers". Always has, always will.

    Sorry Rick! Keep up the good work.

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    vikesrgreat2 is offline Starter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lippythelion69 View Post
    With a good QB the vikes go deep into playoffs
    THIS YEAR??? With the lack of speed at WR and the defense giving up as many points as they have been? I don't think so.

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    Alex smith is a proven leader the last couple years tho and can make the throws. He does not lose games that ponder does/has. That wouldnt be a bad signing.

    I get the most pissed off looks from people with my VKG 4 LFE Wisconsin license plate, and I LOVE IT!!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikesrgreat2 View Post
    THIS YEAR??? With the lack of speed at WR and the defense giving up as many points as they have been? I don't think so.
    Speed is not the only quality a wide receiver has, and in this case, I am uncertain if it would help much. Ponder could not hit a moving train with a pass, and speedy wide receivers would just be a more difficult moving target.

    During the first few games of the season I noted that Ponder had trouble passing beyond twelve yards and to non-stationary targets. This has not changed, and defensive coordinators have now sniffed this out. The curls are covered and the vertical routes are as well. Defensive coodinators dare Musgrave and Ponder to call the slants, crossing routes, corners, and posts that are the bread and butter of the WCO. Either Musgrave does not know what he is doing, or he knows Ponder cannot make those throws consistently.

    The scouting reports on Ponder coming out of college were full of red flags, and most of the flags are still waiving while showing the reports to be dead on. The fact that Ponder was a reach was unquestionable. The fact that the Ponder has not been able to progress in the NFL is unfortunate.

    One can blame the lack of great receivers in Minnesota, but one can also blame Musgrave's high school playbook and Ponder's inability to to show he has the basic skills to be a starting quarterback in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Speed is not the only quality a wide receiver has, and in this case, I am uncertain if it would help much. Ponder could not hit a moving train with a pass, and speedy wide receivers would just be a more difficult moving target.

    During the first few games of the season I noted that Ponder had trouble passing beyond twelve yards and to non-stationary targets. This has not changed, and defensive coordinators have now sniffed this out. The curls are covered and the vertical routes are as well. Defensive coodinators dare Musgrave and Ponder to call the slants, crossing routes, corners, and posts that are the bread and butter of the WCO. Either Musgrave does not know what he is doing, or he knows Ponder cannot make those throws consistently.

    The scouting reports on Ponder coming out of college were full of red flags, and most of the flags are still waiving while showing the reports to be dead on. The fact that Ponder was a reach was unquestionable. The fact that the Ponder has not been able to progress in the NFL is unfortunate.

    One can blame the lack of great receivers in Minnesota, but one can also blame Musgrave's high school playbook and Ponder's inability to to show he has the basic skills to be a starting quarterback in the NFL.
    I disagree that Ponder was a reach. Looking at it without the benefit of hindsight the pick was understandable. And once again you only pick out the negatives from the scouting report - you sound like a broken record, only now you are adding the "I told you so" track.

    I don't disagree with the pick. I don't disagree with the decision to start him. And this offseason when we go looking for a new QB, I won't disagree with that either.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMullitia View Post
    Like it or not, Spielman will bring in Alex Smith next year after spending high picks on new receivers in the draft. I foresee some sort of Ponder / Smith QB competition in typical Vikings style. Probably a new OC. Mark my words. Alex Smith will be a Viking. Spielman drafts and signs "game managers". Always has, always will.
    I don't see this as a bad thing. Smith has had a pretty good record the past few years...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I disagree that Ponder was a reach. Looking at it without the benefit of hindsight the pick was understandable. And once again you only pick out the negatives from the scouting report - you sound like a broken record, only now you are adding the "I told you so" track.

    I don't disagree with the pick. I don't disagree with the decision to start him. And this offseason when we go looking for a new QB, I won't disagree with that either.
    Ponder was a reach. How far is debatable, but no scouting reports considered him a top twelve prospect. Nothing he did in college would have suggested that he would be a genuine no-miss starter. All players have pros and cons, but Ponder had reports that not only suggested he would struggle as young players do but also that he would be unable to perform in many areas at the NFL level. Those reports are tough to overlook when selecting at number twelve in the draft.

    As far as, "I told you so," I bring up earlier posts to show that I am not just talking out of my butt whenever the wind blows one direction or another. I bring up things that I have seen previously because they are on record. In Ponder's case, it could have gone either way; I could be saying, "I saw this earlier, but now I see this." The trouble is, I cannot say I see improvement, and it is unfortunate.

    I have defended Ponder throughout the season, but I have seen enough to have grave worries about his ability to be a starter in the NFL. Young quarterbacks miss targets, get plays confused, and throw into coverage. If that was all this is, I could say that Ponder needs more seasoning, but Ponder has not shown the ability to hit moving targets consistently and his accuracy on deep throws is abysmal. A quarterback in his second year in the NFL should be able to physically do those things, and the scouting reports suggest he has never been able to do those things well. He may make inexperienced mistakes like all quarterbacks do in their first few seasons, and that would be fine, but these problems are the fundamentals of the position. It is similar to Troy Williamson not being able to catch a ball over his shoulder; if he cannot do it, he cannot succeed in the NFL.
    Last edited by Minniman; 12-03-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  8. #28
    smegmavike is online now Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I disagree that Ponder was a reach. Looking at it without the benefit of hindsight the pick was understandable. And once again you only pick out the negatives from the scouting report - you sound like a broken record, only now you are adding the "I told you so" track.

    I don't disagree with the pick. I don't disagree with the decision to start him. And this offseason when we go looking for a new QB, I won't disagree with that either.
    The problem with picking the positives from the scouting report is that they simply aren't true in many cases whereas the negatves are. Here are a few for those who haven't seen them.
    Scouting Report: Christian Ponder | Draft Breakdown
    2011 Draft Prospect Scouting Report: Christian Ponder
    ProFootballWeekly.com - Vikings first-round scouting report: QB Christian Ponder, Florida State

    As a Vikings fan I see Ponder as a QB with very limited up side potential at this point. He has so many flaws I doubt he will develop into a serviceable QB much less a star.
    Truth is, Spielman decided Webb couldn't be a starting NFL QB and didn't allow him to compete with Ponder. Ponder is 'the chosen one'. That not only doesn't allow for a competition in training camp, it also prevents Frazier from benching Ponder no matter how poorly he performs.
    Spielman's decision to reach for Ponder has handcuffed this team from realizing its true potential this year. To exacerbate matters, Spielman has neglected to surround Ponder with anything better than the worst receiver corps in the league ;exception Harvin.
    Ponder had open receivers at times and couldn't deliver the ball. Ponder doesn't have what it takes and the Vikings are stuck with him.
    Ponder's poor play is far less disheartening to me than this obvious fact.
    The organization continues to misfire regarding talent evaluation at the most important position.
    Responsibility lies with Spielman and ultimately the Wilfs for their bad decision to hire him.

  9. #29
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    I didn't mean to imply that Alex Smith would be a bad acquisition. Just a prediction... For what it's worth. It's a Spielman system move. Says he wants a franchise QB... But name one guy he's ever drafted or signed that wasn't considered a "game manager". Also name one place where Smith makes a better immediate fit than right here (or maybe Cleveland).


    It's another week, which means it's time to pose another is-Alex-Smith-a-game-manager question to the 49ers' upcoming week. This week, it was Minnesota coach Leslie Frazier's turn to assess the progress of the 49ers' quarterback, who ranks second in the NFL in passer rating (115.9). Smith has completed 9 of 11 attempts for 142 yards on passes traveling between 10 and 19 yards this season, according to Pro Football Focus.

    "He's making some plays for their offense down the field, not just intermediate routes, which was the knock on him in the past," Frazier said to the Minnesota media. "He plays with a lot of confidence and he seems to really have a command of what they want to get done at the quarterback position. He's definitely more than a game manager. I think that NFC playoff game against New Orleans kind of speaks to that."


    Read more: Viking coach: Alex Smith more than manages - SFGate
    Last edited by MulletMullitia; 12-03-2012 at 12:59 PM.

    Sorry Rick! Keep up the good work.

  10. #30
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    Well, I am not at all happy with ponder so this is no effort to minimize how bad he has played, but if you look at the two guys taken ahead of him in Locker and gabbert, I would no sooner have either one of those guys as the QB and if ponder was a reach, then they were even more of a reach than he was.

    You never know how a guy will turn out and that is why you have guys like Leaf get drafted 2 and burn out while guys like brady slip to the 6th and end up in the HOF. I am not disappointed the drafted a QB at that spot, just disappointed that he isn't going to pan out and we are going to be set back 2 more years while teams like Indy, Washington, Seattle and others got the right guy and are ahead of us.At least we got that LT who will give him the time to pass and give the WR's time to run their routes.

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