Ponder

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Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

The sad thing, is I think Ponder was, OUR GUY. We've done it for the past 10 years.

With the exception of the first round, and with the exception of this years draft, what we've done is:

Draft slow corners "Cover 2" (AKA, can't cover worth a crap) corners
Draft unimpressive linemen
Draft unimpressive safeties
Draft a slow, not very powerful powerback early
Trade out of the first round, and after all is said and done, wind up with LESS picks than you started with
Draft slow, mediocre linebackers.

I'd just like us in the late round take a gamble on the stupidly fast, but flawed DB, or the powerful, but dumb as a rock lineman. They at least have a chance of turning around. You can't make bad athletes into great ones, but you can fix character flaws.

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Trust me Ponder wasn't our guy. They said that after to save face. " we got the guy we wanted". What were they to say " We really wanted Gabbert but we ended up with Ponder"?
The issue is we don't address offense with talent. How many years do we draft bums in the late 4th as offensive starters. We drafted fucking Booty in the 6th and tried to make him a starter. A 6th round fucking QB. Lets hope for Brady every year. I am literally yelling like the Hitler spoof videos as I type this. " A QB in the fucking 6th round"

Tonight, I am going to make a video.

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Originally Posted by kevoncox

That right there is a terrible way to draft.
The fact remains that every year there is a finite amount of nFL caliber players at all positions.
Good teams realize that by the 15th pick, the 5th best player at 1 particular position should not be off the board. We used to see it with DEs, then we started seeing it with OTs, now we are seeing it with QBs. At # 12 the top DTs, CBs, and players at other positions were there.

Nick Fairley
Robert Quinn
Mike Pouncey
Ryan Kerrigan
Nate Solder
Prince Amukamara
Adrian Clayborn
Jimmy Smith
Torrey Smith
Randall Cobb

Are all players that were available at the 12 pick or could have been traded back for. Under no circumstances do you reach for a QB that is not available. Wait until next season. Qb is the most important position in all of sports, you don't go QB shopping on a whim. A team should approach QB shopping like house hunting. I would rather sign a Vet on a 1 year deal than to draft the wrong guy and kill my franchise for 5 years. You don't role the dice on QBs. You trade up and get YOUR GUY! YOu jump up into the top 3 if have to to get your guy. Once you have that guy, the picks you spent getting him are moot. WRs are found in the 2nd or signed. Thinkabout it like this, because we paniced and wasted a pick on Pondexter, we missed out on 2 of the best QB prospects in the last 10 years. Its time to take a sure fire thing. Aren't you tired of the Booty's Jacksons and Ponders? The only reason we are talking about this guy is because we drafted him high. If he was Cardinals QB, we would be talking about how terrible he is and laughing at them. Stop defending a guy that is facing man to man coverage and is under throwing everyone. The under throw to AP has to be the worst i have ever seen. It hit the defender in the fucking back like it was a comeback route. The only reason I tolerated him was because he wasn't turning over the ball. Now he has developed a habit of doing it at the worst fucking time. If we cut him tomorrow, I would rejoice, because it means 2 less years of being in the hunt and seeing him shit it away. I don't care if he has a 100 QB rating the next 4 games. He is going to piss it away.
Ask yourself... how many Pro bowl Qb throw for consecutive sub 100 yard games. He is the reason Harvin wants a trade. He's the reason Harvin gets traded next season. Put money on it.

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Best PP.O post in a long time.
"You don't role the dice on QBs. You trade up and get YOUR GUY! YOu jump up into the top 3 if have to to get your guy. Once you have that guy, the picks you spent getting him are moot"
Washington did it and went from irrelevant to relevant. Spielman rolls the dice too often with players who are coming off injury, or have never proven themselves.
It seems we will need a miracle to win with Spielman as the GM.
Spielman needs to quit trying to find diamonds in the rough, and find a way to find shining diamonds.
I'm a fan of building through the draft as he is trying to do, but you need to put the appropriate free agents on the field to give your team a chance each and every season.There is no way anybody thought we would have a good enough team to contend this year. But every Vikings fan also hopes there is an outside chance. The only free agent he hit on this year was Felton.

He's had some hits, such as Kalil, and Smith. Maybe Wright and Robinson as well. But will he admit his failures such as Ponder, Carlson, Jefferson, Simpson, and most of the wide receiver corps, and move on?
I doubt it.
It will be more of the same next year.The new mantra will be' Ponder just needs a better supporting cast'.
I wish I could ask Percy Harvin his opinion regarding that.

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Originally Posted by kevoncox

That right there is a terrible way to draft.
The fact remains that every year there is a finite amount of nFL caliber players at all positions.
Good teams realize that by the 15th pick, the 5th best player at 1 particular position should not be off the board. We used to see it with DEs, then we started seeing it with OTs, now we are seeing it with QBs. At # 12 the top DTs, CBs, and players at other positions were there.

Nick Fairley
Robert Quinn
Mike Pouncey
Ryan Kerrigan
Nate Solder
Prince Amukamara
Adrian Clayborn
Jimmy Smith
Torrey Smith
Randall Cobb

Are all players that were available at the 12 pick or could have been traded back for. Under no circumstances do you reach for a QB that is not available. Wait until next season. Qb is the most important position in all of sports, you don't go QB shopping on a whim. A team should approach QB shopping like house hunting. I would rather sign a Vet on a 1 year deal than to draft the wrong guy and kill my franchise for 5 years. You don't role the dice on QBs. You trade up and get YOUR GUY! YOu jump up into the top 3 if have to to get your guy. Once you have that guy, the picks you spent getting him are moot. WRs are found in the 2nd or signed. Thinkabout it like this, because we paniced and wasted a pick on Pondexter, we missed out on 2 of the best QB prospects in the last 10 years. Its time to take a sure fire thing. Aren't you tired of the Booty's Jacksons and Ponders? The only reason we are talking about this guy is because we drafted him high. If he was Cardinals QB, we would be talking about how terrible he is and laughing at them. Stop defending a guy that is facing man to man coverage and is under throwing everyone. The under throw to AP has to be the worst i have ever seen. It hit the defender in the fucking back like it was a comeback route. The only reason I tolerated him was because he wasn't turning over the ball. Now he has developed a habit of doing it at the worst fucking time. If we cut him tomorrow, I would rejoice, because it means 2 less years of being in the hunt and seeing him shit it away. I don't care if he has a 100 QB rating the next 4 games. He is going to piss it away.
Ask yourself... how many Pro bowl Qb throw for consecutive sub 100 yard games. He is the reason Harvin wants a trade. He's the reason Harvin gets traded next season. Put money on it.

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You roll the dice on EVERY player in the draft - there is no such thing as a sure thing.

First you suggest trading back. I love how trading up or down is everybody's answer in the draft as if all you had to do was suggest a trade and you would have teams lining up. It isn't that easy.

Second, the problem was that QBs WERE going off from the board, and we needed a QB. Had we drafted any of those players listed instead of a QB in that draft, people - including you - would be lining up bitching that we didn't address the QB position. Hell, in this draft there were people - including you - that complained that we didn't draft a WR higher than we did, despite the fact that Kalil, Smith, Robison and Wright are all looking like good picks now. People - including you - would have been calling for Frazier's and Spielman's heads if we didn't draft a QB or drafted one in a low round and settled for McNabb (like we did).

Hindsight is 20/20 and we seem to like to use it here as a magnifying glass to pick apart any mistake made. I am curious, if I go back to the draft threads from 2010, who were YOU clamoring for? If I go back to the draft threads from this year, who were YOU clamoring for? There are several people here I can think offhard who were big Gabbart fans. Or big Blackmon fans. Or big Newton fans. Or big Young fans... And yet we never seem to apply the hindsight filter to ourselves.

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Originally Posted by kevoncox

Trust me Ponder wasn't our guy. They said that after to save face. " we got the guy we wanted". What were they to say " We really wanted Gabbert but we ended up with Ponder"?
The issue is we don't address offense with talent. How many years do we draft bums in the late 4th as offensive starters. We drafted fucking Booty in the 6th and tried to make him a starter. A 6th round fucking QB. Lets hope for Brady every year. I am literally yelling like the Hitler spoof videos as I type this. " A QB in the fucking 6th round"

Tonight, I am going to make a video.

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When the hell did we try and make Booty a starter? And would you really have been happier with Gabbart instead of Ponder? Especially if we traded up to get him (as you suggested)?

Spielman had a great draft this year. His FA signings sucked.

But since you asked "The issue is we don't address offense with talent. How many years do we draft bums in the late 4th as offensive starters."...

In 2011 we drafted offense in the 1st and 4th rounds.
In 2010 we drafted offense in the 1st and 2nd rounds.
In 2009 we drafted offense in the 2nd round.
In 2008 we traded for Allen and didn't have a 1st, 3rd, or 4th round pick. We traded up to get our guy - like you said we should. (BTW, Booty was 5th round, not 6th. Sorry to spoil your Hitler like outburst)
In 2007 we drafted offense in the 1st and 2nd round.

Do I really need to go on? We don't just sit back and wait until the 4th round to draft offense like you are suggesting. You can make an argument that previous draft classes haven't been as good, but I would say that this years is on the right track.

Here is a fun little thread to see where some of us were thinking before the 2010 draft. You might be surprised to see that Ponder's name is mentioned a couple of times. So is Gabbart.

http://www.purplepride.org/f69/minne...elect-1094345/

Kevon, I will give you credit, you were talking about trading up then too, although you did say that you would be OK with trading up to get Gabbart...

My point is, a lot of people are complaining about drafting Ponder with the benefit of hindsight.

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Originally Posted by kevoncox

Trust me Ponder wasn't our guy. They said that after to save face. " we got the guy we wanted". What were they to say " We really wanted Gabbert but we ended up with Ponder"?

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You've seen us scout talent. I'm willing to bet Ponder was our #2 or 3 guy on the board, behind Luck (unattainable) and RGIII.

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The issue is we don't address offense with talent. How many years do we draft bums in the late 4th as offensive starters. We drafted fucking Booty in the 6th and tried to make him a starter.

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Did I miss something? When did we try to make him a starter? He never cracked backup spot.

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Originally Posted by NodakPaul

I disagree that Ponder was a reach. Looking at it without the benefit of hindsight the pick was understandable.

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It all depends on what a particular person's definition of a reach is.

Ponder was a reach at number 12 by most peoples standards as he wasn't even slated to be picked until the late 1st/early 2nd round.

Would he have been there when the Vikings picked at #44 had they waited? Doubtful, which is why they understandably took him at #12 instead.

That's what teams have to do when they draft out of necessity rather than draft for the future or to improve a position they already have a serviceable player in.

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Originally Posted by singersp

It all depends on what a particular person's definition of a reach is.

Ponder was a reach at number 12 by most peoples standards as he wasn't even slated to be picked until the late 1st/early 2nd round.

Would he have been there when the Vikings picked at #44 had they waited? Doubtful, which is why they understandably took him at #12 instead.

That's what teams have to do when they draft out of necessity rather than draft for the future or to improve a position they already have a serviceable player in.

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I don't disagree with you at all. Unfortunately there was a need at the QB position, and I don't really see how that could have been changed.

There will be a need at QB again this offseason. We could very well be in that same position this draft.

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Originally Posted by NodakPaul

I don't disagree with you at all. Unfortunately there was a need at the QB position, and I don't really see how that could have been changed.

There will be a need at QB again this offseason. We could very well be in that same position this draft.

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That's exactly what I was saying. He was a reach, but we had to make that reach out of necessity. He wouldn't have been there with the #2 pick. So it's understandable why they took him when they did.

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Originally Posted by NodakPaul

I don't disagree with you at all. Unfortunately there was a need at the QB position, and I don't really see how that could have been changed.

There will be a need at QB again this offseason. We could very well be in that same position this draft.

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There was also that need in 2009 & 2010, but we didn't make it.