TJack might be an upgrade at this point.......
TJack might be an upgrade at this point.......
In closing I truly believe that if this brass would have given Webb the opportuntiy to play substantial time he coul be a very good starter in the league. The players love him, he's a freak athletically, and would give teams fits with him and Peterson back there with some Harvin mixed in. Why they waste this guy is beyond me when we have had to suffer watching a guy obviously in over his head after defenses have EXPOSED HIM.
found this on Yahoo...Ponder engaged to a ESPN reporter..
as usual, after the wedding, there will be NO RECEPTION!!!
Anyway, despite the dickish tone, I don't disagree about Ponder at this point, although I don't think I would apply the "never" label yet. What I don't understand is what you have seen out of Webb to believe that he would be a very good starter in the NFL. Yes, he beat Philly and Washington. But it seems that a lot of memories are conveniently short. The only thing he did in the Philly game was break off a couple of runs. His passing in that game was very poor, just like it was against the Bears the week before and against the Lions the following week. Against Washington, he threw a total of 5 passes. And did just enough to screw us out of RGIII. Do you remember how he played in the Detroit game before, or the Chicago game after?
Webb has had 5 games in which he has seen significant playing time, and in none of those games have I seen anything that would make me think he would be a successful starter in the NFL. In fact, what I see is a playing style that is fairly easy to defend against, especially if coupled with a weak WR corps.
If you want to play the I-told-you-so card with Ponder, fine. With benefit of hindsight I concede the point. I can certainly admit that I was wrong. But any football knowledge credibility you gain from being right with Ponder is being pissed away with your love of Webb. That kind of stubborn commitment to a player who has done nothing to date shows that you ARE just another purple shades wearing Viking fan... ;)
Lets face the facts. The Vikings were desperate for a quarterback. The Titans were desperate for a quarterback. The Jaquars were desperate for a quarterback. The class was WEAK and propped up only because of such desperation of the top teams drafting. The Titans took Locker, he'd done zilch. The Jags too Gabbert, he sucks. The Vikings reached on Ponder. The book on him out of college is exactly as stated almost verbatim. All three with the exception of Locker who has been hurt alot will fail. We as fans always want to believe our guy will succeed. It's hard for us to admit he just can't do it. Ponder has established just that, and defenses will continue to expose him for what he is. A reach, with an arm that cannot make NFL throws, and thin skinned with zero confidence in his ability to play in this league. And dems da facts ...
Spielman and Frazier are stuck with Ponder, so they have to ride him for the duration. I agree with NPaul, it's a bit too early to say Ponder will NEVER become a viable NFL QB. Not sure where the love for Webb is coming from- he just hasn't shown himself to a starting caliber QB. The point that's being misssed is the coaches see both these guys everyday and know the capabilities of both. You can argue that the coaching staff is dense, but they want to win and they are going to go with who they feel is the best option to do that. At this time I agree Ponder is our best option to win and while we have a glint of a chance to make the playoffs, he should play. But once we're eleminated, then Webb should have the opportunity to show what he can do.
I am not giving Ponder a pass at this point. I do feel that we have seen enough. Nothing short of brilliant play in these last four games could change my mind on that, but I do recognize that there is a chance.
I also don't give Webb a pass simply because we haven't seen what he can do. We also haven't see what MBT can do. Nor have we seen what Jared Allen could do if put in position of QB. Should we demand that they all get chances before forming an opinion? I don't think so. I think we can form opinions based on many things - game play being one of them. What little I have seen of Webb's game play has not impressed me. I could be wrong, but until we are eliminated from playoff contention, I don't think that he has earned the right to start just to see what happens.
To be fair, if the coaches DO decide to switch to Webb (hell, or MBT for that matter), I won't be crying into my beer either. It just isn't a decision I would make now if I was in a position to make those decisions.
I will agree with your last paragraph. One of the very big reasons that we took Ponder where we did was because we were just one of several teams that were desperate for a QB. That pushed their stock up considerably, and the Vikings were forced to take a QB higher than he was worth. You call it a reach, I call it necessity. There WERE better players on the board still, but we needed a QB, and we rolled the dice with Ponder. I don't think it was a bad decision at the time.
I do think it is time to admit that Ponder can't do it, and I am OK with that. I think it is time to go in a different direction. I have serious reservations about Webb being the direction we should go, and would rather position ourselves so we can go after Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.
The fact remains that every year there is a finite amount of nFL caliber players at all positions.
Good teams realize that by the 15th pick, the 5th best player at 1 particular position should not be off the board. We used to see it with DEs, then we started seeing it with OTs, now we are seeing it with QBs. At # 12 the top DTs, CBs, and players at other positions were there.
Are all players that were available at the 12 pick or could have been traded back for. Under no circumstances do you reach for a QB that is not available. Wait until next season. Qb is the most important position in all of sports, you don't go QB shopping on a whim. A team should approach QB shopping like house hunting. I would rather sign a Vet on a 1 year deal than to draft the wrong guy and kill my franchise for 5 years. You don't role the dice on QBs. You trade up and get YOUR GUY! YOu jump up into the top 3 if have to to get your guy. Once you have that guy, the picks you spent getting him are moot. WRs are found in the 2nd or signed. Thinkabout it like this, because we paniced and wasted a pick on Pondexter, we missed out on 2 of the best QB prospects in the last 10 years. Its time to take a sure fire thing. Aren't you tired of the Booty's Jacksons and Ponders? The only reason we are talking about this guy is because we drafted him high. If he was Cardinals QB, we would be talking about how terrible he is and laughing at them. Stop defending a guy that is facing man to man coverage and is under throwing everyone. The under throw to AP has to be the worst i have ever seen. It hit the defender in the fucking back like it was a comeback route. The only reason I tolerated him was because he wasn't turning over the ball. Now he has developed a habit of doing it at the worst fucking time. If we cut him tomorrow, I would rejoice, because it means 2 less years of being in the hunt and seeing him shit it away. I don't care if he has a 100 QB rating the next 4 games. He is going to piss it away.
Ask yourself... how many Pro bowl Qb throw for consecutive sub 100 yard games. He is the reason Harvin wants a trade. He's the reason Harvin gets traded next season. Put money on it.
With the exception of the first round, and with the exception of this years draft, what we've done is:
Draft slow corners "Cover 2" (AKA, can't cover worth a crap) corners
Draft unimpressive linemen
Draft unimpressive safeties
Draft a slow, not very powerful powerback early
Trade out of the first round, and after all is said and done, wind up with LESS picks than you started with
Draft slow, mediocre linebackers.
I'd just like us in the late round take a gamble on the stupidly fast, but flawed DB, or the powerful, but dumb as a rock lineman. They at least have a chance of turning around. You can't make bad athletes into great ones, but you can fix character flaws.