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  1. #11
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    Think of Mike Ditka giving up a years draft for Ricky Williams and add a couple of players and a few more draft picks for a single player.
    No one player can make up for that big a hit on the foundation of a team.


    Walker had more miles on him with his years in the USFL before he went to the Cowboys, Vikes changed the way he was used to playing and didn't commit entirely to the run game.
    I'd have to add Herschel had some commitment issues of his own to the game/teams as the Vikes released him, Eagles had him and release him, Giants had him and he end up back with the Cowboys as a third down back/special teams player.

    "singersp" wrote:
    Not to mention they forced him to change the way he ran the ball. Instead of being more steps back behind the line, they moved him closer preventing him from hitting the line at a faster speed.
    Wasn't part of that because he was playing a lot of single back in the back field and he was used to being in an I formation.
    It prevented him from getting to his top gear and I think it also limited his vision of the field from what he was accustom to and gave him less time and room to make adjustments.

  2. #12
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    People forget that up until 1995, the league was dominated by the running back. With out a flagship back, your team was believed to be heading no where(minus Sanfran). The run game was the key to sucess. The issue as it was mentioned was the crappy job coaches did of using the player we had......Now where have i heard that before???
    The trade was inexcusable when it was made, and proved even more so as time went by.


    Regarding the comment that "People forget that up until 1995, the league was dominated by the running back. With out a flagship back, your team was believed to be heading no where(minus Sanfran). The run game was the key to sucess," I'm not sure I agree...here's why:
    Season
    Player
    Team
    Position

    1957 Jim Brown Cleveland Browns Running back
    1958 Jim Brown (2)[3] Cleveland Browns Running back
    1959 Johnny Unitas Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1960 Norm Van Brocklin Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback
    1961 Paul Hornung Green Bay Packers Running back
    1962 Jim Taylor Green Bay Packers Running back
    1963 Y. A. Tittle New York Giants Quarterback
    1964 Johnny Unitas (2) Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1965 Jim Brown (3) Cleveland Browns Running back
    1966 Bart Starr Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    1967 Johnny Unitas (3) Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1968 Earl Morrall Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1969 Roman Gabriel Los Angeles Rams Quarterback
    1970 John Brodie San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1971 Alan Page Minnesota Vikings Defensive tackle
    1972 Larry Brown Washington Redskins Running back
    1973 O.J. Simpson Buffalo Bills Running back
    1974 Ken Stabler Oakland Raiders Quarterback
    1975 Fran Tarkenton Minnesota Vikings Quarterback
    1976 Bert Jones Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1977 Walter Payton Chicago Bears Running back
    1978 Terry Bradshaw Pittsburgh Steelers Quarterback
    1979 Earl Campbell Houston Oilers Running back
    1980 Brian Sipe Cleveland Browns Quarterback
    1981 Ken Anderson Cincinnati Bengals Quarterback
    1982 Mark Moseley Washington Redskins Placekicker
    1983 Joe Theismann Washington Redskins Quarterback
    1984 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins Quarterback
    1985 Marcus Allen Los Angeles Raiders Running back
    1986 Lawrence Taylor New York Giants Linebacker
    1987 John Elway Denver Broncos Quarterback
    1988 Boomer Esiason Cincinnati Bengals Quarterback
    1989 Joe Montana San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1990 Joe Montana (2) San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1991 Thurman Thomas Buffalo Bills Running back
    1992 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1993 Emmitt Smith Dallas Cowboys Running back
    1994 Steve Young (2) San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1995 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers Quarterback

    1996 Brett Favre (2) Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    1997 Brett Favre (3) Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    Barry Sanders Detroit Lions Running back
    1998 Terrell Davis Denver Broncos Running back
    1999 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams Quarterback
    2000 Marshall Faulk St. Louis Rams Running back
    2001 Kurt Warner (2) St. Louis Rams Quarterback
    2002 Rich Gannon Oakland Raiders Quarterback
    2003 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts Quarterback
    Steve McNair Tennessee Titans Quarterback
    2004 Peyton Manning (2) Indianapolis Colts Quarterback
    2005 Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks Running back
    2006 LaDainian Tomlinson San Diego Chargers Running back
    2007 Tom Brady New England Patriots Quarterback

    MVP's 1957-1995
    Running Back:
    12 MVP's
    Quarterback:
    24 MVP's
    DT: 1 MVP (one of the most amazing seasons by any player, thank you Alan Page)
    Linebacker:
    1 MVP
    Kicker (huh?):
    1 MVP

    MVP's 1996-2007
    Running Back:
    5 MVP's

    Quarterback:
    9 MVP's

    Now, these are MVP's for the Season, I realize that.
    A QB and defense playing well going into the Playoffs is the key to virtually all Super Bowl wins.
    Herschel Walker was neither.

    Now, back to the question originally asked, not sure if he compares to anyone now...he didn't really have great moves, and if you hit him in the legs, he went down; but, MAN, was he strong (upper body) and fast.
    He could catch the ball well too.
    Also, a legendary college RB...played like he was a man among boys.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  3. #13
    VikingMike's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    Maybe the vikings should be shopping Peterson. If they could get a boat load of picks and players they could build a dynasty much the way the cowboys did. Seriously though think about it. I love AD but I would love a Superbowl even more. I bet you could get minimum of 3 first round picks for him.

    I love my nuts too, and I'd give up one of them in a heart beat for a Super Bowl win.
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

    Come from the land of the ice and snow...

  4. #14
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "MaxVike" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    People forget that up until 1995, the league was dominated by the running back. With out a flagship back, your team was believed to be heading no where(minus Sanfran). The run game was the key to sucess. The issue as it was mentioned was the crappy job coaches did of using the player we had......Now where have i heard that before???
    The trade was inexcusable when it was made, and proved even more so as time went by.


    Regarding the comment that "People forget that up until 1995, the league was dominated by the running back. With out a flagship back, your team was believed to be heading no where(minus Sanfran). The run game was the key to sucess," I'm not sure I agree...here's why:
    Season

    Player

    Team

    Position


    1957 Jim Brown Cleveland Browns Running back
    1958 Jim Brown (2)[3] Cleveland Browns Running back
    1959 Johnny Unitas Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1960 Norm Van Brocklin Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback
    1961 Paul Hornung Green Bay Packers Running back
    1962 Jim Taylor Green Bay Packers Running back
    1963 Y. A. Tittle New York Giants Quarterback
    1964 Johnny Unitas (2) Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1965 Jim Brown (3) Cleveland Browns Running back
    1966 Bart Starr Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    1967 Johnny Unitas (3) Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1968 Earl Morrall Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1969 Roman Gabriel Los Angeles Rams Quarterback
    1970 John Brodie San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1971 Alan Page Minnesota Vikings Defensive tackle
    1972 Larry Brown Washington Redskins Running back
    1973 O.J. Simpson Buffalo Bills Running back
    1974 Ken Stabler Oakland Raiders Quarterback
    1975 Fran Tarkenton Minnesota Vikings Quarterback
    1976 Bert Jones Baltimore Colts Quarterback
    1977 Walter Payton Chicago Bears Running back
    1978 Terry Bradshaw Pittsburgh Steelers Quarterback
    1979 Earl Campbell Houston Oilers Running back
    1980 Brian Sipe Cleveland Browns Quarterback
    1981 Ken Anderson Cincinnati Bengals Quarterback
    1982 Mark Moseley Washington Redskins Placekicker
    1983 Joe Theismann Washington Redskins Quarterback
    1984 Dan Marino Miami Dolphins Quarterback
    1985 Marcus Allen Los Angeles Raiders Running back
    1986 Lawrence Taylor New York Giants Linebacker
    1987 John Elway Denver Broncos Quarterback
    1988 Boomer Esiason Cincinnati Bengals Quarterback
    1989 Joe Montana San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1990 Joe Montana (2) San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1991 Thurman Thomas Buffalo Bills Running back
    1992 Steve Young San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1993 Emmitt Smith Dallas Cowboys Running back
    1994 Steve Young (2) San Francisco 49ers Quarterback
    1995 Brett Favre Green Bay Packers Quarterback

    1996 Brett Favre (2) Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    1997 Brett Favre (3) Green Bay Packers Quarterback
    Barry Sanders Detroit Lions Running back
    1998 Terrell Davis Denver Broncos Running back
    1999 Kurt Warner St. Louis Rams Quarterback
    2000 Marshall Faulk St. Louis Rams Running back
    2001 Kurt Warner (2) St. Louis Rams Quarterback
    2002 Rich Gannon Oakland Raiders Quarterback
    2003 Peyton Manning Indianapolis Colts Quarterback
    Steve McNair Tennessee Titans Quarterback
    2004 Peyton Manning (2) Indianapolis Colts Quarterback
    2005 Shaun Alexander Seattle Seahawks Running back
    2006 LaDainian Tomlinson San Diego Chargers Running back
    2007 Tom Brady New England Patriots Quarterback

    MVP's 1957-1995
    Running Back:
    12 MVP's
    Quarterback:
    24 MVP's
    DT: 1 MVP (one of the most amazing seasons by any player, thank you Alan Page)
    Linebacker:
    1 MVP
    Kicker (huh?):
    1 MVP

    MVP's 1996-2007
    Running Back:
    5 MVP's

    Quarterback:
    9 MVP's

    Now, these are MVP's for the Season, I realize that.
    A QB and defense playing well going into the Playoffs is the key to virtually all Super Bowl wins.
    Herschel Walker was neither.

    Now, back to the question originally asked, not sure if he compares to anyone now...he didn't really have great moves, and if you hit him in the legs, he went down; but, MAN, was he strong (upper body) and fast.
    He could catch the ball well too.
    Also, a legendary college RB...played like he was a man among boys.
    Sipe in 80 is like the forgotten MVP on the year Earl Campbell had his best year with over 1900 yards :

  5. #15
    mountainviking's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    The whole idea was ludicrous from the start.
    Herschel Walker was a square peg in a round hole here in MN!
    We were a passing team with a passing OLine who were suddenly trying to run from the I-formation.
    Der dah Der!

    But, yeah, the focus was way more on running the ball back then...and playing defense.
    The rules have been tweaked to instigate offense these days.

    We finally have a contender for a Hall of Fame Running Back...personally, at this point, I wouldn't trade him for 3 first round picks or any other offer.
    Can't we please just have one superstar in MN for a few years!!?!??!???
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #16
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    Walker wasn't bad. His problem, in my opinion, was that he required a lot of "start-up space". In other words, once he got going, he was fast and I remember him actually knocking down corners and safeties even downfield. His problem was that he was easy to tangle up at the line.

    I hate to say it, but he reminds me of AP (AP obviously has far more upside). He also reminds me of Michael Bennett in that way. He also was a bit like Bo Jackson.

    I view that trade as a "get the name guy and fill seats that way", rather than the best talent. Same reason the Cardinals went afte Emmett Smith.

  7. #17
    sirweeze's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone.
    I always wondered why my dad (former season ticket holder) hated Herschel... "He tip-toes to the line and falls over!"
    So I guess it wasn't entirely his fault.

    Also... Brian Sipe is a former NFL MVP?!?

  8. #18
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "sirweeze" wrote:
    Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone.
    I always wondered why my dad (former season ticket holder) hated Herschel... "He tip-toes to the line and falls over!"
    So I guess it wasn't entirely his fault.

    Also... Brian Sipe is a former NFL MVP?!?
    He didn't tip-toe to the line. He hit the line on the run, which is why when he came here he stood farther back behind the line.

    Our OC didn't like that & tried to make him a 2-3 step back. It didn't work.

    It wasn't broke & they tried to fix it.

    The OC fucked up big-time with that move. He never could admit he was wrong & let Herschel run the way Herschel ran best.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #19
    sirweeze's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "singersp" wrote:
    "sirweeze" wrote:
    Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone.
    I always wondered why my dad (former season ticket holder) hated Herschel... "He tip-toes to the line and falls over!"
    So I guess it wasn't entirely his fault.

    Also... Brian Sipe is a former NFL MVP?!?
    He didn't tip-toe to the line. He hit the line on the run, which is why when he came here he stood farther back behind the line.

    Our OC didn't like that & tried to make him a 2-3 step back. It didn't work.

    It wasn't broke & they tried to fix it.

    The OC ~messed up~ up big-time with that move. He never could admit he was wrong & let Herschel run the way Herschel ran best.
    That was Bob Schnelker right?

  10. #20
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Please give me some proper perspective....

    "singersp" wrote:
    "sirweeze" wrote:
    Thanks for all your thoughts, everyone.
    I always wondered why my dad (former season ticket holder) hated Herschel... "He tip-toes to the line and falls over!"
    So I guess it wasn't entirely his fault.

    Also... Brian Sipe is a former NFL MVP?!?
    He didn't tip-toe to the line. He hit the line on the run, which is why when he came here he stood farther back behind the line.

    Our OC didn't like that & tried to make him a 2-3 step back. It didn't work.

    It wasn't broke & they tried to fix it.

    The OC fucked up big-time with that move. He never could admit he was wrong & let Herschel run the way Herschel ran best.
    That would make Herschel uncoachable wouldn't it

    Walker need to get the ball over 250 time to have a 1000 yard season, that is something he didn't get with the Vikes, his yards per carry @ 4.2 in 90 & 92, this was also his career average.


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