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  1. #21
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087461
    Damn I love threads like these. Don't have the time to give a full analysis/comment.

    Having said that, a couple of quickies....

    OL - I think you need to really take into account everyones play with respect to who was on the field and who wasn't.

    Case in point, Sully. He isn't supposed to take on NT's by himself. The blocking scheme calls for a G to help and then one of them to shift to the next level (LB). With injuries to both G's his play was effected a bit.
    Now I'm curious, do you help Childress come up with blocking schemes for his plays?

    Sure, yes perhaps in a traditional zone blocking scheme that may happen, but we tend to not follow the rules of how schemes traditionally work.

    I still think the Center should be one of the stronger guys out there, a Good Center should be guy who can handle a NT or DT head on. Doesn't have to pancake him, just stand his ground. Sully can not do that.

    On the flip side, when Sully was out, Coop and Cook were a step down. That step down affected how Hutch and Herrera played.


    WR's. Again, taken as a group, they are hard to evaluate without all of them on the field in thier sets.

    Having said that, I think we need to look long and hard at what the plan is for BB and Rice. IMHO both could go and I wouldn't be upset. Take the money the are paying BB and would pay Rice and invest it in someone like Jackson,
    I was about to e-slap you in the mouth, but then I realized it was V-Jax. Need my coffee ha!
    keep a Camarillo and draft another field stretcher.
    That would work, but getting VJ is a tall order. Especially since we don't have a QB. Not exactly the most enticing thing for a top WR in the league. IMO our best bet is a trade or draft, as landing a stud will be trick (crosses fingers for fitzgerald)
    RB's. Can't wait to see what Toby does next year with a year under his belt. Additionally, I believe all the backs will benifit next year if we can keep the same OLmen on the field for the full season like we saw in 09.
    I bet you see more of what we saw already. Toby is the guy who will get 1-4 yards on average per run, and rarely break a long one. I still stand by the thought that he's just too slow to really be a great back. He might be a guy who can help move the chains and tire out defenses, but he still does have a long way to go. If our blocking improved, I think we could see him really look alot better, as rather than having to run over DT's and DE's, he'll be hitting LB's and S's
    QB's. What a mess. Again, don't have time. Looks like there aren't enough first rounders to get one to us. I wouldn't mind giving up a second for another vet (I like Orton right now), if one doesn't fall to us.
    Depends on how the draft turns out. IF we don't get one of the top guys available, i think vet is the way to go. Kolb or Orton would work for me.

  2. #22
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087461


    QB's. What a mess. Again, don't have time. Looks like there aren't enough first rounders to get one to us. I wouldn't mind giving up a second for another vet (I like Orton right now), if one doesn't fall to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1087475
    Depends on how the draft turns out. IF we don't get one of the top guys available, i think vet is the way to go. Kolb or Orton would work for me.
    Or......

    We can just trade up in the second to take a projected 6th rounder and spend the next 5 years "developing" them.


    It has worked out so well in the past.

  3. #23
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Not sure if this was posted elsewhere.

    Interesting player grades from by Tom Pelissero 1500espn.com.Well worth the read.

    http://1500espn.com/sportswire/2010_Vikings_Review_Harvin_Peterson_get_offenses_t op_grades012311#
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #24
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    What does it take to get an A if Peterson doesn't get one? Especially when considering the grades he gave our linemen.

    The guy said it himself, probably led in unblocked yards, 877 yards after contact, 4.6ypc... the guy made something out of nothing all year. Practically 3/4 of his yardage was after contact.

  5. #25
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1087364
    Ok i'm bored and have alot of time on my hands.. Wanted to make a player analysis.. Just a short note for each basically.. Feel free to add players I forgot.. Just going off top of my head.. Feel free to add any input and prove me wrong haha.. And DONTTTTT turn this isnt a Brett Vs TJ thread please.. Also if there is already something like this I apologize just lock her up.. I haven't been on much and havent seen much


    Brett- Could tell he was hurt.. he's a warrior.. Gonna miss the guy

    T JOKE- Enough said.. Im rollin with the nickname now.. Ha

    Webb- Looked good as a rook.. Basically what was expected from him as a 3rd string D2 6th round project.. Love the upside

    .

    Adrian- Keeps improving as an all around back.. Im waiting to see when we scrap the ZB scheme to see what he really can do

    Toby- Was never really high on the pick.. But he did alright IMO.. Of course alot of room for improvement

    Lorenzo- Was impressed with him.. He looks like a very nice scat back and very good returner.. He has the ability to take it all the way

    Tahi- improved IMO.. Wasn't yellin at my tv quite as much.. Looked better as an option in the passing game if needed as a check down

    .

    Shank- Wasn't impressed.. Had real high hopes.. Had alot of penelties.. Wasn't nearly as effective as I thought he would be

    Klein- Same old Jimmy.

    .

    Percy- Love the kid.. Didn't think he would be effective in the passing game for a few years coming out.. He has more then surpassed what I expected

    Sidney- When he's healthy he's a stud.. Just wish he could have played.. I think it would have made the WHOLE offense look ALOT better

    Berrian- Please just cut our losses.. I can't stand him

    Greg- Another Eagle cast off.. He isn't horrible but doesn't add much to the team

    Cam- Was expecting alot outta him.. Im not sure if it was the lack of chances or skill as to why he didn't really do much.. As a punt returner he was alright.. Always fighting for that extra yard

    Baskett- Has always sucked..

    Moss- Wish we had kept him.. Woulda been nice to have him or Sid take that double team and allow Percy to continue to kill it in the slot

    .

    Big Mac- Besides sucking against speed rushers I think he did solid.. Im not in the boat to cut or trade him.. Hard to find a nice LT

    Hutch- Seemed to be banged up.. Looked lethargic at times.. Hope he can rebound

    Sully- Average center that struggles against big tackles due to his size.. Missin Birk

    Herrera- Been banged up.. I miss his flat out pancaking people.. Hope he can rebound as well

    Loady- Was EXCITED to have this kid.. He regressed far too much this year.. Idk what the deal was but he needs alot of work

    Degeare- Love the young guy.. He drives people back and gets to the next level.. Alot of times looked like our best lineman IMO

    Cook- Decent back up.. Love the versatility.. But strictly back up

    Cooper- Blows

    If I forgot anyone feel free to add.. Going to do D and STs next.. Add more input.. Basically here to add some conversation.. Or a "discussion" with Marty! :laugh:
    I would agree with everything except Big Mac - he is a turd and we should have gotten rid of him last year. You are right it is hard to find a good LT but we don't have a good LT and we shoudl look ot replace him in the draft this year.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  6. #26
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1087509
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087461


    QB's. What a mess. Again, don't have time. Looks like there aren't enough first rounders to get one to us. I wouldn't mind giving up a second for another vet (I like Orton right now), if one doesn't fall to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1087475
    Depends on how the draft turns out. IF we don't get one of the top guys available, i think vet is the way to go. Kolb or Orton would work for me.
    Or......

    We can just trade up in the second to take a projected 6th rounder and spend the next 5 years "developing" them.


    It has worked out so well in the past.
    I still laugh when I see you comments on the approach the last regime took in trying to solve the QB woes and still wait for what you would have done based on the following:

    Who would you have drafted.
    Who would you have traded for wrt a Vet.

    I put it all down in a thread so you shouldn't have to work to hard at finally giving me your solution.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1088969
    Not sure if this was posted elsewhere.

    Interesting player grades from by Tom Pelissero 1500espn.com.Well worth the read.

    http://1500espn.com/sportswire/2010_Vikings_Review_Harvin_Peterson_get_offenses_t op_grades012311#
    Thanks for the read doc.

    • John Sullivan (D+): Hampered by calf problems from training camp on, Sullivan (792 snaps, 77.0%) never got into a rhythm and neither did the offensive line. Allowed 16 total QB pressures and three sacks. Couldn't generate consistent movement in the run game, save for one excellent performance at Washington. Misfired on six snaps. Had brutal performances against New Orleans and the Giants. Dropped out early in two games and missed two others completely because of the calf injuries. At times, looked like he couldn't push off the bad leg. Did not take a penalty. Continued to hold up well in the mental aspects of the position, but just didn't play with enough power. Entering the final season of his rookie contract, Sullivan has to stay healthy and get stronger. The Vikings have to consider their options regardless.
    Fair assesment IMHO. Mix that in with two broke G's and a QB who couldn't get out of a wet, ripped, toiletpaper sack and you can see why the offense sucked so bad this year.

    Quick question to all,........

    Are the leg injuries an indication that Sully is trying to carry to much weight? If so, we need to move on and find another cat at C.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Player Analysis Offense

    I finally got around to looking at the roster, position by position. I will put the Defense in your other thread of this nature.

    Couple of comments.......

    a. Contract data came from Rotoworld number in front of the players name equates to how many players we have on contract combined with the offensive side of the ball.

    b. Currently we are at 47, but you can almost make that number 48 because we will have to add a K. Taking that into account, we currently have roster spots for only 5 players.

    c. That number is very misleading because of the 6 players we have on the roster that are signed to "Futures Contracts".

    d. Position title in Red is a major concern were we need to address by either signing one of our FA's, using a draft pick or addressing via the FA market.


    Quarterbacks
    1. Joe Webb 7/28/2010: Signed a four-year, $2.71 million contract. The deal included a $92,515 signing bonus. 2011: $405,000, 2012: $490,000, 2013: $575,000, 2014: Free Agent
    2. Rhett Bomar 2/20/2010: Signed a three-year, $1.065 million contract. 2011: $330,000, 2012: $415,000, 2013: Restricted Free Agent

    Tarvaris 2011: Free Agent

    Clearly the biggest position of need on the team and the actions taken by the staff will probably have a serious impact on what our FA's will do when it comes to sticking around or leaving.

    There are clearly no FA vets out there that are going to come in and run this team. You will have to pay an arm and a leg for the likes/services of Kolb (remember what the Iggles turned down last year) and McNabb seemed to have found out his arm was a rag last year.

    What I think they will do is go ahead and look real hard at this years draft class and pick the best one that fits the scheme. Let him, Webb and Bomar along with probably another mid tier vet (Ramsey) fight it out for the 3 roster spots and try to find another undrafted kid that they can move to the PS as a project.

    What I would do would be offer TJ a contract and hope like hell he takes it. Like it or not, he is the best QB on the streets that could come in and make this team a competitor as he fits the scheme to a T. If I was TJ, I would tell them to shove it and go out and sell my services to the highest bidder.


    Runningbacks
    3. Adrian Peterson 2011: $10.72 million, 2012: Free Agent
    4. Toby Gerhart 7/30/2010: Signed a four-year, $3.767 million contract. The deal contains $1.939 million guaranteed. 2011: $405,000, 2012: $490,000, 2013: $575,000, 2014: Free Agent
    5. Lorenzo Booker 2011: $555,000, 2012: Free Agent

    Albert Young 2011: Exclusive Rights Free Agent

    No issues with this spot. AD still needs to iron out his last few issues with pass protection. Toby will only be better this year coming off of what looked like a promising start last year. Book seemed to be a nice fit as the "Change of Pace" third down option.

    One thing I would do here is go ahead and extend AD. He has not only proven that he deserves it, but he is gonna be the key to the offense next year as they move back to the run first, run second, run third mentality that the Chiller and Bevs first brought to the table. Additionally, extending AD would help smooth out some of those ill wills that could still be lingering from last years "Tender" issues.

    Fullbacks
    6. Jeff Dugan 2011: $775,000, 2012: Free Agent
    7. Ryan D'Imperio 1/3/2011: Signed a reserve/future contract.

    Naufahu Tahi 2011: Free Agent

    A dead roster postion. Let Dugan play out his roster and sign Ryan to a low level contract. If he doesn't like that, go ahead and bring in a Undrafted no neck, knee bending blocker. Again, the focus of the staff is to run. A FB might help in that role but doesn't have to be any sort of pass catching threat that most of you pine for.

    Wide Receivers
    8. Percy Harvin 8/2/2009: Signed a five-year, $12.05 million contract. The deal includes $8.425 million guaranteed. Another $2.2 million is available through incentives. 2011: $655,000 million, 2012: $915,000, 2013: $1.55 million, 2014: Free Agent
    9. Bernard Berrian 3/1/2008: Signed a six-year, $43.4 million contract. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $8 million, and a second-year roster bonus of $3 million. 2011: $3.9 million, 2012: $6.9 million, 2013: $7.9 million, 2014: Free Agent
    10. Emmanuel Arceneaux 1/22/2011: Signed a three-year, $1.8 million contract. The deal included a $75,000 signing bonus. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent
    11. Greg Camarillo 2011: $1.7 million, 2012: Free Agent
    12. Juaquin Iglesias 2011: $405,000, 2012: Restricted Free Agent
    13. Freddie Brown 1/3/2011: Signed a reserve/future contract.

    Jaymar Johnson 2011: Restricted Free Agent
    Hank Baskett 2011: Free Agent
    Greg Lewis 2011: Free Agent
    Sidney Rice 2011: Free Agent

    Not as big a mess as some think. You need to start by shopping BB so that you can add another pick to your arsenal as well as freeing up some money for what you will have to spend either on Rice or another Vet that can act as your big/possession target in the intermediate/redzone. Question is, what will Rice and his prick agent ask for and is he worth it based on his injury woes. I for one would have loved to see them go after V-jax but now that he has been tendered, I start to look at guys like Plex and wonder what he would cost.

    Regardless, I think you go into the season with the following:

    PH
    Vet/Rice
    Cam
    Iggy
    Rookie drafted this year (Burner)

    Key is that you will need to pay close attention to the WR's you have. With a young QB under C you want vet leadership/skills out there running routes. PH and Cam bring that and you make sure that you have a big guy (huge wingspan) like Rice or Plex that can catch anything that gets close so that you can cover up some of the minor mistakes the young QB will make.

    Center
    14. John Sullivan 2011: $555,000, 2012: Free Agent
    15. Jon Cooper 2011: $480,000, 2012: Restricted Free Agent

    The shift from the ZB'ing scheme pretty much drives a change at C. both Sully and Coop are guys that need a G to help initiate contact before one or the other shifts to the next level. That is now gone, again, based on the new staffs desire to get rid of the ZB scheme.

    I look for the staff to make this as high of a priority, possibly higher, than QB based on who might or might not be available at 12.

    Offensive Tackle
    16. Phil Loadholt 7/29/2009: Signed a four-year, $3.425 million contract. The deal contains $1.675 million guaranteed, including a $1.2 million signing bonus. Another $15,000 is available through incentives. 2011: $480,000, 2012: $565,000, 2013: Free Agent
    17. Bryant McKinnie 9/8/2006: Signed a seven-year, $48.5 million contract extension through 2013. The deal includes $18.15 million guaranteed, $17.25 million of which was paid out in the first year. Another $5 million is available through incentives tied to Pro Bowls. 2011: $4.9 million, 2012: $4.5 million, 2013: $4 million, 2014: Free Agent
    18. Patrick Brown 2011: $405,000, 2012: Exclusive Rights Free Agent

    Ryan Cook 2011: Free Agent

    I'm not as concerned as some of you are when it comes to T this year. Again, that is based on the shift in blocking schemes along with the depth that is in this class. Brown is kindof interesting, but seems to be on the smallish side. Not sure what their plan is for him. Again, look for the staff to draft a T, but probably not until the 4th round or later.

    Offensive Gaurds
    19. Steve Hutchinson 3/24/2006: Signed a seven-year, $49 million contract w/NTC. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed. 2011: $6.68 million, 2012: $6.95 million, 2013: Free Agent
    20. Anthony Herrera 11/21/2007: Signed a five-year, $13.75 million contract. The deal includes $5 million guaranteed. Another $1.25 million is available through incentives. 2011-2012: $2.65 million, 2013: Free Agent
    21. Chris DeGeare 7/28/2010: Signed a four-year, $1.955 million contract. The deal included a $164,800 signing bonus. 2011: $405,000, 2012: $490,000, 2013: $575,000, 2014: Free Agent
    22. Seth Olsen 1/3/2011: Signed a reserve/future contract.
    23. Thomas Welch 12/14/2010: Signed a three-year, $1.215 million contract. 2011: $405,000, 2012: $490,000, 2013: Restricted Free Agent

    Same thing as with the T's. Not a big concern here. Most of our issues last year were related to injury and the inconsistency that rotating lineman in and out of the line causes.

    DeGeare definately flashed last year and then looked like crap. That is to be expected. He is a rook. I think the reps he got under live game time situations will go along way in his development and don't see an issue with this position.

    One thing I would consider, though, would be to offer Cook a nice contract. If for no other reason, he proved he can come in and fill in with very little drop off in production. Additionally, if you are going to go ahead and bring in a new C, Cook provides some nice vet leadership behind him if he struggles early on.

    Tight End
    24. Visanthe Shiancoe 2011: $3.1 million, 2012: Free Agent
    25. Jim Kleinsasser 2011: $3 million, 2012: Free Agent

    No issues with these two.

    Infact, much like AD, I think you go ahead and restructure both of these deals, especially Sauces. Rationale is again, mainly focused on smoothing out any ill will from last year, but also because you are going to need all the blockers you can get as the staff moves back to the Run first, Run Second, Run Third approach that the Chiller/Bevs first started to employ.

    Look for the staff to go ahead and use a late round pick on this roster spot or bring in a true "inline" Undrafted kid that can learn behind Sauce and Shanc.

    In the end, the offense needs some love and care, but won't get all the love in the draft. I look for the staff to go ahead and try to shore up the defense so that they can stop other teams allowing AD to grind close games out for you.

    This will be a very boring offense for most to watch but in the end, it will help your young QB mature without alot of pressure on him and give you a good chance to keep games close and win a few in the end.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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