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  1. #211
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Sep 2005

    Re: Pick 6 on Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1106110
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1106105
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1106104
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1106094
    Yes I can. And since you hate TJ, it's good to see that it's not blind.
    Really? We are back to this again?

    I guess my "blind hate" of TJack means that I don't think that the OL or WR had anything to do with the interception... Oh wait... Pretty sure I said this several times just in the past two pages...

    I don't know why I waste my time here anymore.
    Seemed like he was saying it's not a blind hatred you harbor NP.
    He was saying that the person who disagreed with me was not blind... kind of an insinuation...

    Meh, either way... I have too much to do to be getting worked up over this topic, and really do need to stop wasting my time.
    No, I said was good to see that Kevoncox hate was not blind. It usually has been in the past. Yours, I don't recall as ever being flat out blind.

    kind of an insinuation
    And therein lies the problem........"insinuation" of something that wasn't said and getting upset over it.

    It was directed at Kevon, not at you at all. I was simply shocked that he, Kevoncox, didn't blame it all on TJ like he's done blindly in the past & commented on it.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #212
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Dec 1969
    Phoenix, Arizona

    Re: Pick 6 on Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1106075
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1106067
    Nice pitures but you assume he was running an in. Clearly he is not. He is running a button hook or curl route. If he was running an in, he would be at full speed and it would be impossible to throttle down and change direction to catch the ball. Again, the velocity of the throw tells you the route. He didn't lead him forward as the QB does in most ins/out. The WR clearly stops and reaches to the left. Again, some of the blind TJ hate makes a lot of the illogical things I am reading, laughable. Anyone that knows a route tree knows that this isn't an in.

    Notice, no one has blamed TJ. In all the post game shows, they blamed Tate...yet a couple of guys with 1 camera angle and crude video equipment...has decided that they know more.

    PS....I hate TJ.
    You are right - TJack didn't lead him like you usually do on an in. Ummm, that is the whole point of this thread... The throw was not on target.

    You say that you think it was a curl. I don't see how you can say that. He breaks outside the numbers at the 40. He runs in towards the right hash marks, still angling downfield. When the ball reaches him, he is at the 43. If that is a curl, that is the worst curl in football history. This is very obviously a drag route. Maybe, MAYBE, it could even have been a slant given the fact that Tate kept moving downfield (although I doubt it), but the one thing that is decidedly was not is a curl. Believe it or not, many of us on this forum are pretty familiar with route patterns too. Yes, the WR had to stop and change direction - he shouldn't have had to, but that is where the throw was.

    I must have missed all of those post game shows where everyone claimed that the INT was all on Tate. Perhaps you could share them. But before you start quipping about what a couple of guys with "1 camera angle and crude video equipment" think they know, maybe you should actually read the posts. I have very clearly stated several times that Tate and the OL share some of the blame. That doesn't negate the fact, however, that it was a poor throw.
    Sorry dude but that was not even close to a drag route. I think you need to freshen up on the definition of a drag. It was a button hook. Not a perfect one but routes never are because of adjustments needed to where the defender is. I guarantee his assignment was a button hook.

  3. #213
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Phoenix, Arizona

    Re: Pick 6 on Jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1106120
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1106103
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1106078
    Its a curl/ button hook. Trust me. Go back and watch the video...
    On this point we can agree to disagree... IMHO if this was a curl it was missing the most fundamental part of the curl - the curl itself. But call it whatever you like...

    But even if the play itself was designed to have Tate break in and then stop in the middle of the field and face the QB (let's call that the Tate-Williamson route from now on), the throw still wasn't on target.

    So just so we're clear, are you saying that it was a good pass by TJack? Because nobody here is disagreeing that Tate's oven mitt like hands contributed to it... The fundamental disagreement here is about whether or not the pass was in the right place or not. I think it is fairly obvious that it was high and behind Tate.
    In High school, we ran the same route and called it a curl. We started out running the standard:

    6 yards up-
    3 yards at a 60% angle
    1 yard back to the ball

    but we eventually ran 8 at a 60-70% angle( depending on cover 2 - 3)

    It was the right throw to make. However, the RB in the flats would have been the right target to throw too. But if we are talking about the throw, yes it is a "good throw". was thrown where only the WR could get his hands on it (had he not deflected it up into the air), and it protected the WR as best as possible from the LB hit.

    You will argue that throwing it low would have been a better throw and you might be right...however, throwing it where it was placed would probably maximize the yardage if caught. throwing it low is a harder throw and catch. What is hard about throwing to the left of a WR that has squared his shoulders. Nothing, he simply has to catch it.
    As someone like yourself who played WR in high school, I agree 100%.

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