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  1. #21
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099507
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099447
    Apparently, considering most people, including current and former players will tell you that vets DO help young players out with not only film review, how to act like a pro, etc. but with actually learning the scheme, player tendencies, and how to play the position.


    But of course, you conveniently ignore them. As usual.
    I do nothing of the sort. What I don't agree with is when someone says that the Noodle was coaching up the players and running the offense when in fact he wasn't.

    Player tendencies. How do they figure out player tendencies? Game tape?
    By player tendencies, although not well explained I guess, I was talking more about how the receivers should run their routes. One thing that I remember was early on, one of Favre's first games, they were showing Harvin running some routes, seams I believe, and showing how Favre was throwing into a spot he expected Harvin to go, but Harvin either wasn't ready, or was in the wrong position. Working on things like that with a QB is extremely important. It's much easier when you have a guy who knows the scheme already helping you, rather than say having a Ponder and a Rookie Harvin trying to figure it out together.

    Learning the scheme. Coaches do that more so than players. Thats what they are on the staff for. If they didn't do it, then why do the owners pay them? Surely they don't pay them to get coffee or juice for the players.
    Yes, they do. That's what the hours of film study, playbook study, and unit meetings are for. However, in practice if Favre noticed Rice or Harvin was doing something wrong he woudln't say anything? There are quotes from both the receivers, and even Peterson stating that Favre really helped them all learn some finer points of the offense, and how to play the game. That's some insight that a guy like Ponder doesn't have at this point.

    Very few of those are players who want to teach one of the rooks to take their jobs.
    No, but the ones that do, normally realize their role on the team. THe ones that are either career backups, or old enought o know they won't be around too much longer. We saw Favre and TJ/Webb talking on the sideline alot last season, it likely wasn't about the hockey game last night. He even said, if anyone really has any questions or needs help with anything, he's always willing to help where he can. Yet when that is mentioned, you ignore it, and go back to when he claimed it wasn't his job to teach Rodgers.

  2. #22
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    Of course good WRs make it easy on a QB. Fucking stupid discussion. A good o-line make it easy on a RB/QB, a good QB makes it easy on RBs by taking off pressure, a good team makes it easy on a coach. It's a team effort, so why do you think Ponder wouldn't be involved. Yes they'll probably have to carry him by making highlight reel catches on every single play because he's too stupid and inaccurate to throw it straight? You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    Still miffed I see. Probably why you seem to think that I don't think Ponder would be involved.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099504
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    Of course good WRs make it easy on a QB. Fucking stupid discussion. A good o-line make it easy on a RB/QB, a good QB makes it easy on RBs by taking off pressure, a good team makes it easy on a coach. It's a team effort, so why do you think Ponder wouldn't be involved. Yes they'll probably have to carry him by making highlight reel catches on every single play because he's too stupid and inaccurate to throw it straight? You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    There's a 2x4 impression on Marr's forehead now....

    Caine
    Don't worry my friend. I'm still just as pissed at him as he probably is at me.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099510
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099496
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099435
    I really dont know much about the guy," Peterson told ESPN while visiting its headquarters in the middle of the month. "Ive heard nothing but good things about him. Ive watched him a little bit at Florida State. One thing I have noticed is hes smart with the ball, hes very accurate and just taking the surrounding cast we have as far as receivers -- Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, [Visanthe] Shiancoe -- I feel like hell be able to do enough to get us there. We all have our part to do to contribute. Im definitely going to do my part. So Im going to do the best I can to make it easy on him [being as how] hes a first-year guy and well see how he responds.
    Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Hmmmmmmm, who would have thought......A team that can carry a young QB if they all do their jobs.

    What a novel concept.
    There is a HUGE difference between "making it easy" for someone and "Carrying" someone.

    Greg Jennings and Donald Driver "make it easy" for Rodgers. Do you think they carry him?

    Caine
    An excellent point. Problem is, atleast for me, a QB that sat on the bench learning the game from the bench, shouldn't really need alot of carrying IMHO.

    Now if he was thrown to the wolves as a rook, yes, I expect they would have carried him a bit.

    Coming off the bench, they helped make it easy for him, but last year he actually made them look pretty good. Kindof how one would expect to see a QB mature.
    See, my point is, and always has been when you've thrown that silly "carried by the team" argument, that no one should have to carry anyone.

    Sure, elite players make it EASIER for other players, but if someone is being "carried", they're dead weight. No one needs dead weight.

    It's funny that you can't admit to Allen and Williams "carrying" Edwards, but want to label Favre as - essentially - dead weight in almost every scenario.

    Bottom line, no one is going to CARRY Ponder. He'll either contribute or he won't. Whether he gets 3 years of bench time or 5 minutes of prep work, the MOMENT HE TOUCHES THE FIELD the clock starts ticking. There are NO excuses in the NFL...especially as the QB. You do not get to be a project for 5 years and still have people state, "Wait, he still might pan out"....

    If Ponder starts, he has to perform. He has to carry his weight. Immediately. He doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler right away...but he has to be able to stand on his own two feet.

    Caine

  5. #25
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099511
    By player tendencies, although not well explained I guess, I was talking more about how the receivers should run their routes. One thing that I remember was early on, one of Favre's first games, they were showing Harvin running some routes, seams I believe, and showing how Favre was throwing into a spot he expected Harvin to go, but Harvin either wasn't ready, or was in the wrong position. Working on things like that with a QB is extremely important. It's much easier when you have a guy who knows the scheme already helping you, rather than say having a Ponder and a Rookie Harvin trying to figure it out together.
    That, atleast in my book, is what is normally refered to as "Establishing Timing".

    It isn't the QB teaching the kid how to play the game. Its teaching him that when a QB takes a 3 step drop (cause they both recognize the blitz) the kid should run a 7 step stem on his route instead of the planned 14 step stem.

    Timing...

    Yes, they do. That's what the hours of film study, playbook study, and unit meetings are for. However, in practice if Favre noticed Rice or Harvin was doing something wrong he woudln't say anything? There are quotes from both the receivers, and even Peterson stating that Favre really helped them all learn some finer points of the offense, and how to play the game. That's some insight that a guy like Ponder doesn't have at this point.
    And why they need to work on it. Back to the timing thing. You wanna know why TJ and AD clanged knees? Wasn't cause they didn't know what to do, its cause they had lost the finer point of executing the play.

    Timing.

    No, but the ones that do, normally realize their role on the team. THe ones that are either career backups, or old enought o know they won't be around too much longer. We saw Favre and TJ/Webb talking on the sideline alot last season, it likely wasn't about the hockey game last night. He even said, if anyone really has any questions or needs help with anything, he's always willing to help where he can. Yet when that is mentioned, you ignore it, and go back to when he claimed it wasn't his job to teach Rodgers.
    I have never ignored it.

    I just said that he realized how much shit he took for it from his comments to Rodgers and his actions on the Jets that he changed when he got to the Vikings.

    Funny how that can be construed as ignored in your book. Maybe its cause you ignored my response. :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099519
    See, my point is, and always has been when you've thrown that silly "carried by the team" argument, that no one should have to carry anyone.

    Sure, elite players make it EASIER for other players, but if someone is being "carried", they're dead weight. No one needs dead weight.

    ........snip.......

    Bottom line, no one is going to CARRY Ponder. He'll either contribute or he won't. Whether he gets 3 years of bench time or 5 minutes of prep work, the MOMENT HE TOUCHES THE FIELD the clock starts ticking. There are NO excuses in the NFL...especially as the QB. You do not get to be a project for 5 years and still have people state, "Wait, he still might pan out"....

    If Ponder starts, he has to perform. He has to carry his weight. Immediately. He doesn't have to be a Pro-Bowler right away...but he has to be able to stand on his own two feet.

    Caine
    Your gonna laugh when you read this if you bare in mind that I'm typing it for the second time........

    Anyways,

    One thing thats funny about discussing the game via the internet, is sometimes you say something like "Carry" to shorten your typing time, when in fact your really saying that a team will hide (WR making a great catch) or eliminate (Defense getting the ball back without letting the other team score after a stupid turnover) a young QB's mistakes.

    With that in mind, your comments above aren't really any different than my comments, other than I choose to type "Carry" instead of all that and hope that the person I'm discussing the topic with is assume that is what I mean.

    If we were in person, of course, I could ramble on and on about what I think young Ponders role will be and how the team will help him hide or eliminate those mistakes.

    It's funny that you can't admit to Allen and Williams "carrying" Edwards, but want to label Favre as - essentially - dead weight in almost every scenario.
    I would readily admit that they are carring Ray, however, only if they were playing up to that level. Of late they haven't. Truth of the matter is, they are actually playing about at Ray level with some flashes.

    Which, by the way, isn't a bad thing for most players. But, for me, atleast K-dubb and JA shouldn't be playing down to that level.

    Edit....almost forgot., why bring the Noodle into it. You know I am not a rational man when it comes to that Asswhipe. Its my failing in life. Atleast I admit it.

    ......I hope it posts this time cause I'm not typing this out again.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Freakout is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099504
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    Of course good WRs make it easy on a QB. Fucking stupid discussion. A good o-line make it easy on a RB/QB, a good QB makes it easy on RBs by taking off pressure, a good team makes it easy on a coach. It's a team effort, so why do you think Ponder wouldn't be involved. Yes they'll probably have to carry him by making highlight reel catches on every single play because he's too stupid and inaccurate to throw it straight? You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    There's a 2x4 impression on Marr's forehead now....

    Caine
    He better watch it. Marrdo might send him a threatening private message.

    Last time I called him a hypocrite he got upset and sent me a private message telling me he didn't appreciate being called names. Which proved me right with the way he likes to call everyone he dislikes little cute grade school quality names.

    Apparently Musgrave is his new target.

  8. #28
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099504
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    Of course good WRs make it easy on a QB. Fucking stupid discussion. A good o-line make it easy on a RB/QB, a good QB makes it easy on RBs by taking off pressure, a good team makes it easy on a coach. It's a team effort, so why do you think Ponder wouldn't be involved. Yes they'll probably have to carry him by making highlight reel catches on every single play because he's too stupid and inaccurate to throw it straight? You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    There's a 2x4 impression on Marr's forehead now....

    Caine
    AD's best avg. YPC year was 2007.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #29
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1099551
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1099504
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    Of course good WRs make it easy on a QB. Fucking stupid discussion. A good o-line make it easy on a RB/QB, a good QB makes it easy on RBs by taking off pressure, a good team makes it easy on a coach. It's a team effort, so why do you think Ponder wouldn't be involved. Yes they'll probably have to carry him by making highlight reel catches on every single play because he's too stupid and inaccurate to throw it straight? You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    There's a 2x4 impression on Marr's forehead now....

    Caine
    AD's best avg. YPC year was 2007.
    funny, our best run blocking unit was in 2007.

    Mac playing well, Hutch, Mostly healthy Birk, Hererra/Marcus Johnson? and Cook/Marcus Johnson. They blocked fairly well for us, well the left side. With Sauce at TE and Richardson in the backfield, and Ferguson and Taylor doing some decent downfield blocking, it led to alot of big gains.

  10. #30
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    Re: Peterson eager to see Ponder in action

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099505
    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1099502
    You just want this to be an argument to support all the BS you spew against Favre.
    Just bumped you up a few columns in the 'ol spreadsheet my friend.
    I just spit coffee on my keyboard.

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