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  1. #21
    Flaminglover is offline Waterboy
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    "Gift" wrote:
    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    "Gift" wrote:
    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    I'm not going to try and convince you, its not my job I just dont see how brad gives us a better chance to win when he is playing like he has this season..
    4-3, alot better than the 2-5 & 1-7 of teams that are starting rookies right now.
    Thats how.
    if you put a good rookie qb on a team with talent and a good line they going to play alot better than one on those horrible teams thats a fact
    AZ has tons of talent, still 1-7.
    and the worst offensive line in the league...

  2. #22
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    Nice post Caine..

    But how do we all know Tarvaris isn't "ready"?

    Many QB's have started right out of the gate and have been really successful.. Many have also failed.. But can you blame that on being thrown into the game too early? Who knows?

    I really don't care what we do.. If we do make a move I would imagine it would be Brooks.. But I don't see it happening






    One Love

  3. #23
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    I'm not going to try and convince you, its not my job I just dont see how brad gives us a better chance to win when he is playing like he has this season..
    First of all, the WORST possible thing we could do is start Tarvaris now...and I'll tell you why.

    1:
    Our O-Line has yet to prove they can dominate anyone.
    McKinnie and Johnson were beaten so badly tonight, they will have to be checked into a shelter for abused linemen.
    Do you want the Rookie to spend his first few games running for his life?

    2:
    Our Receivers aren't that good.
    If they were, we'd take more shots downfield...we don't.
    That's for 1 of 2 reasons.
    Either A) Brad is inept and can't see them, or B) They aren't getting open.
    Our longest pass tonight was Mewelde Moore's screen (55 yards)...the next longest was 22, then 20, then 15, then 13.
    How many of those were YAC?


    3:
    Our playcalling sucks.
    Brad Childress is DETERMINED to do it HIS way...and that will not work.
    We haven't had an Offense all season (Except versus Seattle)...will we suddenly develope one if Tarvaris starts?
    Nope.
    Instead, we'll shoestring the poor kid into a hyper-conservative system that doesn't ALLOW him to be effective.
    We need a REAL OC, and Childress needs to quit calling plays.

    So, if you start Jackson now, you're doing 3 things.

    1:
    Declaring for all to see that we have given up hope of having a successful season.

    2:
    Subjecting him - before he's ready - to a confidence-breaking situation that could ruin him for his career (Anyone remember Cade McNown?).

    3:
    Creating more controversy in the locker room than there will be already.

    Tarvaris isn't ready...it's that simple...and neither are we.

    It would be completely different if we had the tools around him to help him BE successful, but until the other components of our Offense remember that they have to play EVERY week, that won't happen.

    Right now, I'm sick to my stomach with Brad Johnson's performance this season.
    I look at the rest of our schedule and see teams we should beat, but I fear our COMPLETE lack of Offense could lead to us being beaten instead (Buffalo beat us, Detroit had us beat).
    Brad Johnson is NOT the problem...neither is he the solution.
    But ruining Jackson doesn't help our situation any.

    Caine
    I mostly agree!
    ;D

    I'd much rather see the Packers miss the playoffs because of their talent then because of their injuries.

  4. #24
    Flaminglover is offline Waterboy
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    I'm not going to try and convince you, its not my job I just dont see how brad gives us a better chance to win when he is playing like he has this season..
    First of all, the WORST possible thing we could do is start Tarvaris now...and I'll tell you why.

    1:
    Our O-Line has yet to prove they can dominate anyone.
    McKinnie and Johnson were beaten so badly tonight, they will have to be checked into a shelter for abused linemen.
    Do you want the Rookie to spend his first few games running for his life?

    2:
    Our Receivers aren't that good.
    If they were, we'd take more shots downfield...we don't.
    That's for 1 of 2 reasons.
    Either A) Brad is inept and can't see them, or B) They aren't getting open.
    Our longest pass tonight was Mewelde Moore's screen (55 yards)...the next longest was 22, then 20, then 15, then 13.
    How many of those were YAC?


    3:
    Our playcalling sucks.
    Brad Childress is DETERMINED to do it HIS way...and that will not work.
    We haven't had an Offense all season (Except versus Seattle)...will we suddenly develope one if Tarvaris starts?
    Nope.
    Instead, we'll shoestring the poor kid into a hyper-conservative system that doesn't ALLOW him to be effective.
    We need a REAL OC, and Childress needs to quit calling plays.

    So, if you start Jackson now, you're doing 3 things.

    1:
    Declaring for all to see that we have given up hope of having a successful season.

    2:
    Subjecting him - before he's ready - to a confidence-breaking situation that could ruin him for his career (Anyone remember Cade McNown?).

    3:
    Creating more controversy in the locker room than there will be already.

    Tarvaris isn't ready...it's that simple...and neither are we.

    It would be completely different if we had the tools around him to help him BE successful, but until the other components of our Offense remember that they have to play EVERY week, that won't happen.

    Right now, I'm sick to my stomach with Brad Johnson's performance this season.
    I look at the rest of our schedule and see teams we should beat, but I fear our COMPLETE lack of Offense could lead to us being beaten instead (Buffalo beat us, Detroit had us beat).
    Brad Johnson is NOT the problem...neither is he the solution.
    But ruining Jackson doesn't help our situation any.

    Caine
    our O line doesnt have to be great for T jack, maybe you didnt hear but he isnt a statue in the pocket like brad johnson is.
    And watch the film, I've never seen more guys wide open deep than troy and beth tonight lol they were under thrown over 3 times tonight when they could have had TD's with a good throw, I'm not saying they are great but they can get the job done plus we have wiggins and taylor who are good receiving weapons

    And I agree our playing sucks, but thats because its built for brad johnson who cant usually throw the ball farther than 20 yards without it being picked off, so of course its going to be dink and dunk right now.

    and how do you get ready to start when you dont play in any real games? The guy has to play at some time, why not when we are facing terrible teams?

    and once again I repeat how do you declare your giving up on the season when your starting qb is playing as bad as he possibly can? he is the reason why we have lost 3 games so far, not the defense not the WR's but him, and he's not the reason why we have won any of them

  5. #25
    audioghost is offline Star Spokesman
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    You know what...give the kid a chance....

    Garbage time in this game against the Pats would have been the perfect time to see what T-Jack can do...but no they put in friggin journeyman Brooks Ball-licker...which i thought was retarted....who are we grooming to be the QB of the future here? Get Jackson some in-game experience...

    Other than that, we have to play 4 HORRIBLE teams and if we can beat Carolina and Seattle with Johnson, having a playmaker in there could at least do SOMETHING...

    Look, Brad Johnson is facing intense pressure to make things happen and he's making mistakes left and right...more INTs than TDs....give our rook a chance to show us what he's got against the 49ers....

    A.G s HOTTEST NEW RAP CD: AUDIO GHOST & MAIN EVENT drop THE SEED: I made tha beats www.myspace.com/audioghost2006

  6. #26
    Flaminglover is offline Waterboy
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack


    Once again, not trying to pick any fights, just joined here, just posting that I think its a risk worth taking, I honestly dont think brad will freak out about backing up the kid and helping him if it means us playing better, he is just that type of guy

  7. #27
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    "audioghost" wrote:
    You know what...give the kid a chance....

    Garbage time in this game against the Pats would have been the perfect time to see what T-Jack can do...but no they put in friggin journeyman Brooks Ball-licker...which i thought was retarted....who are we grooming to be the QB of the future here? Get Jackson some in-game experience...

    Other than that, we have to play 4 HORRIBLE teams and if we can beat Carolina and Seattle with Johnson, having a playmaker in there could at least do SOMETHING...

    Look, Brad Johnson is facing intense pressure to make things happen and he's making mistakes left and right...more INTs than TDs....give our rook a chance to show us what he's got against the 49ers....

    Haha.. I like ur Army that u got in ur sig.. B-rad and T-willy suck :P






    One Love

  8. #28
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "Flaminglover" wrote:
    I'm not going to try and convince you, its not my job I just dont see how brad gives us a better chance to win when he is playing like he has this season..
    First of all, the WORST possible thing we could do is start Tarvaris now...and I'll tell you why.

    1:
    Our O-Line has yet to prove they can dominate anyone.
    McKinnie and Johnson were beaten so badly tonight, they will have to be checked into a shelter for abused linemen.
    Do you want the Rookie to spend his first few games running for his life?

    2:
    Our Receivers aren't that good.
    If they were, we'd take more shots downfield...we don't.
    That's for 1 of 2 reasons.
    Either A) Brad is inept and can't see them, or B) They aren't getting open.
    Our longest pass tonight was Mewelde Moore's screen (55 yards)...the next longest was 22, then 20, then 15, then 13.
    How many of those were YAC?


    3:
    Our playcalling sucks.
    Brad Childress is DETERMINED to do it HIS way...and that will not work.
    We haven't had an Offense all season (Except versus Seattle)...will we suddenly develope one if Tarvaris starts?
    Nope.
    Instead, we'll shoestring the poor kid into a hyper-conservative system that doesn't ALLOW him to be effective.
    We need a REAL OC, and Childress needs to quit calling plays.

    So, if you start Jackson now, you're doing 3 things.

    1:
    Declaring for all to see that we have given up hope of having a successful season.

    2:
    Subjecting him - before he's ready - to a confidence-breaking situation that could ruin him for his career (Anyone remember Cade McNown?).

    3:
    Creating more controversy in the locker room than there will be already.

    Tarvaris isn't ready...it's that simple...and neither are we.

    It would be completely different if we had the tools around him to help him BE successful, but until the other components of our Offense remember that they have to play EVERY week, that won't happen.

    Right now, I'm sick to my stomach with Brad Johnson's performance this season.
    I look at the rest of our schedule and see teams we should beat, but I fear our COMPLETE lack of Offense could lead to us being beaten instead (Buffalo beat us, Detroit had us beat).
    Brad Johnson is NOT the problem...neither is he the solution.
    But ruining Jackson doesn't help our situation any.

    Caine
    our O line doesnt have to be great for T jack, maybe you didnt hear but he isnt a statue in the pocket like brad johnson is.
    And watch the film, I've never seen more guys wide open deep than troy and beth tonight lol they were under thrown over 3 times tonight when they could have had TD's with a good throw, I'm not saying they are great but they can get the job done plus we have wiggins and taylor who are good receiving weapons

    And I agree our playing sucks, but thats because its built for brad johnson who cant usually throw the ball farther than 20 yards without it being picked off, so of course its going to be dink and dunk right now.

    and how do you get ready to start when you dont play in any real games? The guy has to play at some time, why not when we are facing terrible teams?

    and once again I repeat how do you declare your giving up on the season when your starting qb is playing as bad as he possibly can? he is the reason why we have lost 3 games so far, not the defense not the WR's but him, and he's not the reason why we have won any of them
    First of all, when you're 4-3, you aren't playing as bad as you possibly can.
    That happens when you're 1-6...or maybe 2-5.


    Second, if the deep guys are open and Brad isn't seeing them - or can't get the ball there - then why are those routes scripted in?
    In fact, Brad CAN get the ball there, but not when McKinnie and Johnson (Marcus) are more like revolving doors than Offensive Tackles.

    Third, if you want the offense to change to a run-n-gun style - like Atlanta's - take a look at how many Superbowls Micheal Vick has won.
    Tarvaris is more mobile than Johnson, that goes without saying.
    tarvaris has a stronger arm than Johnson....I'll stipulate to that.
    But so does Bollinger...on both counts.
    Should we start Brooks instead?
    After all, he has real NFL experience unlike Tarvaris.

    Not on your life.

    Fourth, our Offense wasn't "built for Brad Johnson".
    Brad Johnson happens to be very familiar with it because he ran something very similar in Tampa Bay.
    Everyone uses something from this offensive style.
    But the PROBLEM is the play calling.
    Childress needs to get a real OC in there and stop calling plays.
    His hyper-conservative style, coupled with an immobile Qb with an iffy arm are simply allowing Defenses to feast on us.
    And, as we saw tonight, the Defense can't so it for us every game (Although they tried).

    Nope, again, it makes NO sense to start Jackson now.
    It makes much more sense to ride the pony we have until the season is over, re-evaluate, and move forward in the off season.

    Maybe I'd consider giving him a few starts....once we're mathematically eliminated from play-off contention.
    But, with our remaining schedule, I don't see that happening.

    Caine

  9. #29
    Flaminglover is offline Waterboy
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    yes brad is playing awful the reason why we have a winning record to this point is because the defense and taylor have been playing great you cant even try to argue this point, watch the games look at the stats

    And yes this offense has been built for johnson, I've even heard it said acouple times by childress lol

    I never said I wanted a run and gun offense, tavaris can be a very good pocket qb, who avoids the rush and I just want a qb in there who can throw the bullet passes to the 15 yard range so our WR's can make a play after the catch, and a qb who can throw the deep ball accurate

    And the deep routes are put in to try and scare the defense so they back off the line so we can run the ball easier, But now teams arent even scared of it anymore, they know brad cant get the ball there so they just keep their covg 1 on 1 every time

  10. #30
    tybrones87's Avatar
    tybrones87 is offline Rookie
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    Re: This is the Perfect time to Start T jack

    Haha I love it. After one loss you all are calling for the 3rd stringer. ??? One bad game against one of the leagues best teams and everybody goes nuts, nice thinking all. :-

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