Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 77
  1. #31
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,899
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Lets try again my friend. Brady throws Welker open. Brady throws low to protect Welker when the catch is needed but he is covered. Brady is a great QB.

    Ponder....throws his WRs covered. Poder sets up his WRs for the big hit. Poder is not a great QB.

    Seriously Marr,
    As a WR you know its not just about the catch. Some times if a pass is thrown in stride... the WR doesn't have to slow down and can take it to the house. Sometimes a pass that should have netted us 50 yards...nets us 5. That is what I believe was Percy's issue with Ponder. With his abilities, catching a pass in stride, would make him/us a dangerous team. Too often if it wasn't a screen, he had no YAC BECAUSE OF THE THROW ( late, high, low, behind).

    Secenrio...
    Team A sends the house to stop peterson. Harvin runs a slant, beats his man and the middle of the field is wide open. Ponder is late with the throw, his man recovers, and tackles Harvin short of the first down. According to you Harvin should be happy because he got the ball. That's nonsense, that play could have moved us 30 yards, Harvin knows it, the coaches knows it, Ponder knows it. Harvin goes back tot he huddle and tells Ponder to throw it in stride. Rinse and reapeat this 50 times over the last two years. Eventually, Harvin (who is uber competative) is no longer talking...he is yelling, unhappy and feels that his QB just doesn't have IT. He goes to the coaches like he has done before to complain that Ponder is not putting the ball where...ANY of the WRs can catch and score.

    I believe this is what happened....not his desire for more touches and the ball.
    I understand the whole "Hang a WR out to dry" concept and I'm saying Welker got it all the time with Brady. That, by the way, is why most believe Danny isn't going to make it through the year out there.

    And to further compound your attempt, who was number one in YAC per catch last year? Poor ole Percy, you know, the one you contend was laid out every time he caught the ball from crappy old Ponder.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/dat...=25&numgames=1

    Welker was ranked 21rst by the way.

    Comeon my friend, the data is there that supports Ponder did his job and did it effectively. That isn't to say he slung it all over the place deep. Thats not what he was drafted for. He was drafted to run the Walsh Variant of the WCO. That means alot, not a few, but alot of short passes with a few deep ones mixed in.

    LOS 83% - 75%
    1-10yds 66% - 72%
    11-20yds 50% - 43%
    21-30yds 79% - 34%
    31-40yds 25% - 40%
    41+yds 0% - 0%

    Quick question, of the two QB's above, which one do you want to start? 1rst column or the second?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #32
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,899
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    You aren't hearing me friend. We are winning inspite of him.
    He is a question for you. Can we replace Ponder with of the other starters in this league and win as many games? If the answer is yes....we are winning in spite of him. (The answer is yes btw)

    Are you trying to say Ponder Carried this team the first half of the season? What? Come on Marr put the "beast" down... it's Wed man.
    Of course we an replace Ponder with other QB's. He's a third year QB, going into his second full year of starting. I'd replace him with anyone of the top 15 or so.

    He'd be on the bench in a minute, learning from were he is supposed to be learning. Not on the field in front of fans who have no clue about what they are watching.

    And I'm not saying he carried the team. No one carries a team unless your playing basketball or hockey when you have a hot goalie. In the NFL you win as a team.

    I said, we won with him under center and lost the most important one when he wasn't.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #33
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Give some of the comments as direct quotes vice some hacks speculation.

    What I assumed happened.....

    1. Harvin was upset in two training camps.

    This was about the move to bring in yet another TE to move the offense more and more to a multi=TE offense. In Harvins eyes that means less and less touches.

    2. Harvin complained about Ponder Performance to coaches......

    Again, give me the direct quotes.

    3. Ponders work ethic?

    Again, give me facts, not your opinion if your going to say fact.

    Fact. Played through a bumb elbow in college. To do that he had to completely change his throwing motion. You don't do that without alot of work. If you could Tebow wouldn't be were he is right now.
    1. You asked me for facts but you say the move to two TE is what Harvin complained about?
    How does that seem logical, when the first half of the season, he was the prime target. A tiger doesn't change it' stripes. You don't practice in the Preseason to run a 2 TE offense primarily and then come out running screens for half the season. Try again. That's not it.

    2. Vikings grew tired of Harvin complaining about Ponder | ProFootballTalk
    This is the best I can do. It goes hand in hand with what I was saying. It's not about the # of catches. It's about putting me in position to use my talents. That's the QBs job. Get me the ball and let me help this team. He however, wipes scoring plays off the ball with his late reads

    Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin angry at Leslie Frazier - NFL Videos

    "Had to speculate what he was mad about. Was it the lack of execution in pass protection, or the QB not getting the ball out on time"

    From his lips... I saw "that's bullshit"... "fucking ball"

    This doesn't look like a coach/ player blow up like most have assumed.
    It looks like a player complaining to a coach.

    3. What? I questioned his work ethic not his toughness. I wager he is not putting in the film time.
    I have yet to see an article or a story about him being a gym rat or staying late. I have a direcct account from a player who everyone agrees is a hard worker and pushes himself and others to work hard.....basically saying that our QB doesn't do the things he needs to do to be great.

    More proof it's not about the touches. Harvin is going into a crowded WR corp. What WR that is concerned about touches...would do that? He signed a big contract play there. He didn't have to.

  4. #34
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,819
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post

    More proof it's not about the touches. Harvin is going into a crowded WR corp. What WR that is concerned about touches...would do that? He signed a big contract play there. He didn't have to.
    That's why he signed with Seattle.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post

    More proof it's not about the touches. Harvin is going into a crowded WR corp. What WR that is concerned about touches...would do that? He signed a big contract play there. He didn't have to.
    That's why he'll start complaining.

  5. #35
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,899
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    1. You asked me for facts but you say the move to two TE is what Harvin complained about?
    How does that seem logical, when the first half of the season, he was the prime target. A tiger doesn't change it' stripes. You don't practice in the Preseason to run a 2 TE offense primarily and then come out running screens for half the season. Try again. That's not it.

    2. Vikings grew tired of Harvin complaining about Ponder | ProFootballTalk
    This is the best I can do. It goes hand in hand with what I was saying. It's not about the # of catches. It's about putting me in position to use my talents. That's the QBs job. Get me the ball and let me help this team. He however, wipes scoring plays off the ball with his late reads

    Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Percy Harvin angry at Leslie Frazier - NFL Videos

    "Had to speculate what he was mad about. Was it the lack of execution in pass protection, or the QB not getting the ball out on time"

    From his lips... I saw "that's bullshit"... "fucking ball"

    This doesn't look like a coach/ player blow up like most have assumed.
    It looks like a player complaining to a coach.

    3. What? I questioned his work ethic not his toughness. I wager he is not putting in the film time.
    I have yet to see an article or a story about him being a gym rat or staying late. I have a direcct account from a player who everyone agrees is a hard worker and pushes himself and others to work hard.....basically saying that our QB doesn't do the things he needs to do to be great.

    More proof it's not about the touches. Harvin is going into a crowded WR corp. What WR that is concerned about touches...would do that? He signed a big contract play there. He didn't have to.
    None of those links give me direct quotes from Percy that support your contention.

    I can read lips about as good as you can so I will give you the "that's bullshit"... "fucking ball" but if you look back at what was happening in that game........

    Minnesota Vikings vs. Seattle Seahawks - Box Score - November 04, 2012 - ESPN

    Percy wasn't having one of his best.....Fumble,
    3rd and 10 at MIN 11(Shotgun) P.Harvin up the middle to MIN 19 for 8 yards (M.Trufant). FUMBLES (M.Trufant), RECOVERED by SEA-M.Trufant at MIN 17. M.Trufant to MIN 17 for no gain (P.Loadholt).

    Ponder spread the ball around to everyone including AD (3 catches). Mix in that Percy only had 6 of the 22 targets with AD getting 4.

    One could almost fill in the blanks.....

    I don't care what you say, that's bullshit , we won't win this game unless you get me the fucking ball.

    or

    I'm tired of all this, not getting me the ball bullshit. We won't win this game unless you start getting me the fucking ball more.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #36
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,899
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I understand the whole "Hang a WR out to dry" concept and I'm saying Welker got it all the time with Brady. That, by the way, is why most believe Danny isn't going to make it through the year out there.

    And to further compound your attempt, who was number one in YAC per catch last year? Poor ole Percy, you know, the one you contend was laid out every time he caught the ball from crappy old Ponder.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/dat...=25&numgames=1

    Welker was ranked 21rst by the way.

    Comeon my friend, the data is there that supports Ponder did his job and did it effectively. That isn't to say he slung it all over the place deep. Thats not what he was drafted for. He was drafted to run the Walsh Variant of the WCO. That means alot, not a few, but alot of short passes with a few deep ones mixed in.

    LOS 83% - 75%
    1-10yds 66% - 72%
    11-20yds 50% - 43%
    21-30yds 79% - 34%
    31-40yds 25% - 40%
    41+yds 0% - 0%

    Quick question, of the two QB's above, which one do you want to start? 1rst column or the second?
    Crickets.....Crickets......
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #37
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Crickets.....Crickets......
    Sorry went to work my friend.
    But to answer your question, we both know the difference between a 5 yard slant and a bubble screen/ motion into the backfield flare route. Ask your self this, who ran more screens? Percy. What is the net yac on a screen? Everything you get is yac. We both know that Ponder is the master of the 0 yard screen. However, an interesting point would be to check Harvin's YAC on passes that travel 7 yards or more. On those passes I wager he would be much lower down on the list. Which goes with what I am saying. I never contended that Harvin had an issue with screens or the touches he was gettign but instead the quality of passes. If you want to say his screens we high quality passes...ok feather in Ponder's cap. However, when throwing like you know... a Pro Qb, Ponder's passes irated Harvin. Stop villifying the guy... our QB is one of the worst in the league. Deal with it! The FO has!

  8. #38
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Minnesota Vikings vs. Seattle Seahawks - Box Score - November 04, 2012 - ESPN

    Percy wasn't having one of his best.....Fumble,
    3rd and 10 at MIN 11(Shotgun) P.Harvin up the middle to MIN 19 for 8 yards (M.Trufant). FUMBLES (M.Trufant), RECOVERED by SEA-M.Trufant at MIN 17. M.Trufant to MIN 17 for no gain (P.Loadholt).
    Actually the series in question is....

    1-10-MIN24 (9:14) C.Ponder scrambles right end to MIN 32 for 8 yards (M.Morgan).
    2-2-MIN32 (8:36) A.Peterson up the middle to SEA 44 for 24 yards (B.Browner, C.McDonald).
    1-10-SEA44 (7:52) A.Peterson up the middle to SEA 29 for 15 yards (E.Thomas).
    1-10-SEA29 (7:11) P.Harvin right end pushed ob at SEA 14 for 15 yards (R.Sherman).
    1-10-SEA14 (6:37) C.Ponder pass short left to T.Gerhart to SEA 11 for 3 yards
    2-7-SEA11 (5:58) (Shotgun) C.Ponder pass incomplete short right to P.Harvin.
    3-7-SEA11 (5:55) (Shotgun) C.Ponder sacked at SEA 18 for -7 yards (B.Wagner).

    4-14-SEA18 (5:29) B.Walsh 36 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-C.Loeffler, Holder-C.Kluwe.
    MIN 17 SEA 14, Plays: 8 Yards: 58 Possession: 3:49.

    Great plays by the stars of our team and a drive wasted by the guy that stunk it up that day. How can you even talk about the Seattle game with a straight face. Our QB was aweful that day. Dreadful. 22 pass attempts 11 completions for 63 yards and the INT. He looked lost out there and should have been benched. He wasn't spreading it around. He was running around with his head up his ass all game long. He cost us this game. 5 rushes for 23 yards. None designed plays... just tucking and running.

  9. #39
    HEY's Avatar
    HEY
    HEY is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,196
    Blog Entries
    1
    I can't remember Ponder throwing Percy Harvin into many situation where he has been laid out, sort of speak. That theory doesn't hold up in my opinion. However, Christian Ponder has been very inconsistent and the huge lack of deep balls might be the reason to Harvin's dissatisfaction.

  10. #40
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1
    It is just as likely that Harvin is not that accomplished as a route runner and that he doesn't put himself in a good spot to catch the ball.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •