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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by battleaxe4cheese View Post
    Ponder took the high road, and if he didn't he has no business leading this team. It's a passing grade in this test.
    When was the last time I told you that you were wise beyond your years my friend. ....Back to back posts.....top shelf, top shelf indeed.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngloVike View Post
    I wish him the best as well unless we're playing against him. Think the one thing that suprised him was that the team was winning when he was absent and therefore people weren't kissing his arse as was happening previously. One thing that was established was that, at the moment, the Vikes are AP's team and not Percy's - and I think that hurt his ego a little. Percy needs to remember that the team did all that they could to help him with the migraine problem where some would have simply jettisoned him, but that does not make a player indispensable.
    Make no mistake Ponder will be under the microscope this season and we shall see how he performs. Percy may well yet be proved right regarding his feelings, as a receiver, about Ponders passes. Whatever happens with Ponder is now no concern of Percy, he can just concentrate on his job in Seattle.
    Why did you come to this conclusion? What have you seen from him saying he should get the ball more? What have you seen from him that said he wanted to be the man and not Peterson? Seems to me by Peterson's reaction they were friends and enjoyed playing together. What did we see....

    1. Harvin was upset in two training camps.
    Could it be the lack luster throws and plays that he was seeing from Ponder? Could it the lack of a QB competition and the major step down from Favre that Harvin saw. Funny, he never pulled the "my team routine" when he was the 4rd option, 3rd passing target. Why would he pull it as the 2nd option, 1st passing target?

    2. Harvin complained about Ponder's performance to the coaches
    Proven fact. He didn't complain about touches. He didn't complain about getting the ball. He complained about our QBs performance. After 6 games that could have clearly been sub 100 yard passing games, do you blame him. I know that 1 throw in week 17, white washed the entire season but...let me remind you what our season was like........our QB stinks. He has no accuracy past 15 yards. 0, zilch, nada, Nin, none, 1-1 =, cero.... This is what Harvin didn't liked.

    3. Poder apparently doesn't have the work ethic to be great. If it's one thing that has never been said about Harvin is that he doesn't work hard. The guy gives his body before the season to get in fantastic shape. Last year he dropped weight to play at a lighter but stronger level. He respects Peterson because of his work ethic. He respected Favre because of his knowledge and film study. One thing we have never heard about Ponder is his film study or work ethic. Lets add to the fact he decided to get married during the season (which is his right but still not a good idea) and one starts to wonder where his mind is. Does he give his all in the film room? Is he the first to come, last to leave kind of guy? I don't know but I do know that Harvin went out of his way to praise Favre and his new QB about their work ethic and neglected his then current QB in this manner. It's clear that according to Harvin...Ponder doesn't work hard enough to be great. I'm likely to agree.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I agree on both counts.

    Problem is, I still think Ponder will have his moments this year and even though he will make a huge step up, all the pundints (who basically wrote him off) will continue to over amplify those issues and the fan base will continue to doubt him.
    Marr,
    You are acting like the guy was slinging it for 250yds every game and leaving no doubt he should be starting. I hate that people get revisionist history as soon as the season is done.
    Fact. We won games in spite of Ponder not because of him.
    Fact. We lost games specifically because of Ponder. He singlehandily cost us games.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I've said this before and I will say it again. As a WR it's not about how many times he is thrown to, but it's the quality of throws. I believe that Percy was tired of being thrown to late.... thrown in to coverage..... thrown to where he had no chance to catch and run..... over thrown... under thrown....

    Get it? WRs don't just care about the # of touches they get. If you keep getting me lit up because you are are exposing me to the big hit... believe I will have an issue with you.....

    So please for the love of god.... stop with the ..... Ponder threw him 62 catches as a defense for why he should be happy with our noodle armed QB....
    And Wes Welker didn't take those same kinds of hits, catch those same 2nd and 3rd reads? Heck, if you buy into what our good friend Singer is selling, Ponder just threw it to him right away and didn't even take a look down field.

    Nope, when you are leading the league in catches, you are getting yours (= money, fame etc) and unless your a Diva, you should be happy.

    Lets look at if from another aspect, I guess Rudy (tied for 2nd in TD's for TE's) should be un happy because he wasn't the first look on alot of those catches. He should be beeeeyatching at how inept the QB play was to get him that high in TD stats cause it probably helped him hit an escalator and he probably put some extra cash in his pocket.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Marr,
    You are acting like the guy was slinging it for 250yds every game and leaving no doubt he should be starting. I hate that people get revisionist history as soon as the season is done.
    Fact. We won games in spite of Ponder not because of him.
    Fact. We lost games specifically because of Ponder. He singlehandily cost us games.
    Show me one place were I haven't repeated that he makes mistakes and will continue to make mistakes?

    We won 10 games with him under center and we lost the most important one when he wasn't under center.

    AD, who supposedly carried the team wasn't AD for the first half of the season. Who carried the team then? AD was AD in that last game, what happened to him and his ability to carry a team?

    It doesn't work that way old friend. This is the ultimate team sport. This team functions better when Ponder is under Center last year. It did and you can't deny that.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplejokr View Post
    Just my .02

    But, it always bothers me a touch when fans of a football team bash players on their way out of town. Call Harvin what you will but he is an uber talented WR that was posting MVP like numbers until he got hurt and Peterson returned to form. That kind of production isn't easily replaced. Is Harvin a diva? Yes. Almost every WR in the game is a diva though so it isn't that big a deal.

    For me, I appreciate Harvin for what he is. A player that hasn't quite come into his own with regard to maturity. And nor should he be mature because he's only 24 and has probably been told since he was 14 that he was the greatest thing ever. He looked great in purple and I am sorry to see him go. I wish him the best in Seattle.
    Thats about .04 cents worth. Great post my friend.

    One thing though, we did replace him and go 5-2 with a kid named Wright in his place.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngloVike View Post
    I wish him the best as well unless we're playing against him. Think the one thing that suprised him was that the team was winning when he was absent and therefore people weren't kissing his arse as was happening previously. One thing that was established was that, at the moment, the Vikes are AP's team and not Percy's - and I think that hurt his ego a little. Percy needs to remember that the team did all that they could to help him with the migraine problem where some would have simply jettisoned him, but that does not make a player indispensable.
    Make no mistake Ponder will be under the microscope this season and we shall see how he performs. Percy may well yet be proved right regarding his feelings, as a receiver, about Ponders passes. Whatever happens with Ponder is now no concern of Percy, he can just concentrate on his job in Seattle.
    Good stuff Anglo.

    One brief comment though, I think Percy will be watching all season on how the Vikes (and Ponder) do without him. Its in his nature to want to prove himself right and the Vikes wrong.

    Let one thing happen and he will be yapping like a poodle with a cat in the yard.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    And Wes Welker didn't take those same kinds of hits, catch those same 2nd and 3rd reads? Heck, if you buy into what our good friend Singer is selling, Ponder just threw it to him right away and didn't even take a look down field.

    Nope, when you are leading the league in catches, you are getting yours (= money, fame etc) and unless your a Diva, you should be happy.

    Lets look at if from another aspect, I guess Rudy (tied for 2nd in TD's for TE's) should be un happy because he wasn't the first look on alot of those catches. He should be beeeeyatching at how inept the QB play was to get him that high in TD stats cause it probably helped him hit an escalator and he probably put some extra cash in his pocket.

    Lets try again my friend. Brady throws Welker open. Brady throws low to protect Welker when the catch is needed but he is covered. Brady is a great QB.

    Ponder....throws his WRs covered. Poder sets up his WRs for the big hit. Poder is not a great QB.

    Seriously Marr,
    As a WR you know its not just about the catch. Some times if a pass is thrown in stride... the WR doesn't have to slow down and can take it to the house. Sometimes a pass that should have netted us 50 yards...nets us 5. That is what I believe was Percy's issue with Ponder. With his abilities, catching a pass in stride, would make him/us a dangerous team. Too often if it wasn't a screen, he had no YAC BECAUSE OF THE THROW ( late, high, low, behind).

    Secenrio...
    Team A sends the house to stop peterson. Harvin runs a slant, beats his man and the middle of the field is wide open. Ponder is late with the throw, his man recovers, and tackles Harvin short of the first down. According to you Harvin should be happy because he got the ball. That's nonsense, that play could have moved us 30 yards, Harvin knows it, the coaches knows it, Ponder knows it. Harvin goes back tot he huddle and tells Ponder to throw it in stride. Rinse and reapeat this 50 times over the last two years. Eventually, Harvin (who is uber competative) is no longer talking...he is yelling, unhappy and feels that his QB just doesn't have IT. He goes to the coaches like he has done before to complain that Ponder is not putting the ball where...ANY of the WRs can catch and score.

    I believe this is what happened....not his desire for more touches and the ball.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Why did you come to this conclusion? What have you seen from him saying he should get the ball more? What have you seen from him that said he wanted to be the man and not Peterson? Seems to me by Peterson's reaction they were friends and enjoyed playing together. What did we see....

    1. Harvin was upset in two training camps.
    Could it be the lack luster throws and plays that he was seeing from Ponder? Could it the lack of a QB competition and the major step down from Favre that Harvin saw. Funny, he never pulled the "my team routine" when he was the 4rd option, 3rd passing target. Why would he pull it as the 2nd option, 1st passing target?

    2. Harvin complained about Ponder's performance to the coaches
    Proven fact. He didn't complain about touches. He didn't complain about getting the ball. He complained about our QBs performance. After 6 games that could have clearly been sub 100 yard passing games, do you blame him. I know that 1 throw in week 17, white washed the entire season but...let me remind you what our season was like........our QB stinks. He has no accuracy past 15 yards. 0, zilch, nada, Nin, none, 1-1 =, cero.... This is what Harvin didn't liked.

    3. Poder apparently doesn't have the work ethic to be great. If it's one thing that has never been said about Harvin is that he doesn't work hard. The guy gives his body before the season to get in fantastic shape. Last year he dropped weight to play at a lighter but stronger level. He respects Peterson because of his work ethic. He respected Favre because of his knowledge and film study. One thing we have never heard about Ponder is his film study or work ethic. Lets add to the fact he decided to get married during the season (which is his right but still not a good idea) and one starts to wonder where his mind is. Does he give his all in the film room? Is he the first to come, last to leave kind of guy? I don't know but I do know that Harvin went out of his way to praise Favre and his new QB about their work ethic and neglected his then current QB in this manner. It's clear that according to Harvin...Ponder doesn't work hard enough to be great. I'm likely to agree.
    Give some of the comments as direct quotes vice some hacks speculation.

    What I assumed happened.....

    1. Harvin was upset in two training camps.

    This was about the move to bring in yet another TE to move the offense more and more to a multi=TE offense. In Harvins eyes that means less and less touches.

    2. Harvin complained about Ponder Performance to coaches......

    Again, give me the direct quotes.

    3. Ponders work ethic?

    Again, give me facts, not your opinion if your going to say fact.

    Fact. Played through a bumb elbow in college. To do that he had to completely change his throwing motion. You don't do that without alot of work. If you could Tebow wouldn't be were he is right now.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Show me one place were I haven't repeated that he makes mistakes and will continue to make mistakes?

    We won 10 games with him under center and we lost the most important one when he wasn't under center.

    AD, who supposedly carried the team wasn't AD for the first half of the season. Who carried the team then? AD was AD in that last game, what happened to him and his ability to carry a team?

    It doesn't work that way old friend. This is the ultimate team sport. This team functions better when Ponder is under Center last year. It did and you can't deny that.
    You aren't hearing me friend. We are winning inspite of him.
    He is a question for you. Can we replace Ponder with of the other starters in this league and win as many games? If the answer is yes....we are winning in spite of him. (The answer is yes btw)

    Are you trying to say Ponder Carried this team the first half of the season? What? Come on Marr put the "beast" down... it's Wed man.

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