Thread: Percy Harvin returned 'in a good frame of mind,'

Originally Posted by singersp

Meh, I disagree with that statement wholeheartedly. Harvin isn't disrespectful if AD asks him to stay & he doesn't, he's merely looking out for himself. AD is already making his millions. It doesn't mean he thinks he's better than AD, it simply means he wants his payday too.

AD should respect Harvin's decision whatever it is.

Why stop there, why don't we just have AD say to all the FA we want to keep, "We need you. I am the man. If you won't be a team player & sign this contract for far less than you're worth, then you must think you're better than me, you're disrespecting me & it's time for you to go."

Totally missed the point.

If Harvin doesn't want to be HERE it is not about money. It is about knowing his pecking order not only among the players, it goes further than that with authority.

If he has no respect for those two things, then it won't matter how much we pay him.

I don't expect AD to go recruit everyone. This to me with Harvin is the best way to see where his heart and attitude is at.

I never assumed the Vikings weren't going to pay him what he is worth. The article says that they always had intentions to renegotiate the last year of his contract. I wouldn't expect pH to take anything less than what he is worth. My comments weren't based on money it is about knowing his place.

Originally Posted by Randy Moss

One thing is for certain. We either need to get him locked up or trade him now. It would be awful to lose another talented wide receiver that we drafted in FA.
He was the best player on the team while he was playing this season at a position that we're weak at. He's also the best kick returner in the game. I say let's lock him up, draft a Z, and give Simpson one more shot. If we draft well, I think we could have pretty solid receiving core.

Our front office seems to think WRs come a dime a dozen. Maybe that only applies when you have a great QB. I don't know. They don't want to pay top dollar. We'll see sooner than later what they think of Harvin.

Best KR and best K make for points on the board if you can get a few first downs.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Why oh why do we need a "Deep threat" (aka X) reciever. Why isn't it more important to fix our Z (aka possession receiver)

One, (the X) will see 2 - 5 throws a game. The other, (the Z) will see 10 - 15 throws a game. Inside the red zone, a guy isn't going to run deep. On 3rd downs you are typically looking at something between 5-15 yards.

Look I get that you want to see the ball chucked deep all the time, but the reality of the matter is our scheme doesn't dictate that, nor does AD need the top lifted off to get his yards.

No, you don't get it all. Not even close. Not even still after we've been thru this a dozen times. A deep threat receiver just doesn't catch passes 40 yards down the field, nor does having one mean we need to chuck it deep all the time. Using your logic if someone stated that GB needs a RB you would interpret that as saying that person believes GB needs to abandon their passing game & pound the ball every time.

A deep threat WR Marrdro, also catches the ball, 30 yards out, 20 yards out, 10 yards out & on the LOS. You just don't seem to be able to grasp that

An X receiver can also make the Y & Z routes & catches, We don't have that yet, ergo teams don't have to prepare or protect for that against us. A Z receiver can't necessarily make the X catches.

We may only throw long passes to him farther down field 2-5 time a game, but that doesn't mean we won't throw short & medium passes to him also. We will. Our deep threat receiver would catch passes 10-15 times a game, they just wouldn't be deep all the time.

It's just silly to state all we need is receivers that can catch the ball within 5-10 yards & keep our game there.

Who on our roster do you feel is capable of reliably catching those X passes? Oh wait, you don't think we need a X receiver at all.

Do you think the Ravens would have won the SB if they hadn't thrown a single pass over 10 yards?

Originally Posted by Marrdro

I like everything you just said except your first comment. Our whole game isn't based on it, it just starts there.

With threats like Percy and AD teams will have to cheat up in the box (we want them to, hell we encourage it) and when they start doing that then you will see things open up for a Z and a couple of shots to the X. That will then have a trickle down effect when it comes to those shots deep.

It may open up shots to the X, problem is we can't reliably take them because our team lacks that X receiver. What part of that don't you get?

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Go back to the beginning of the year when AD was struggling. Percy and Rudy were pretty effective and to a certain extent guys like Jenkins were helping in a bit at the Z.

I know you don't realize this, but in the 1st half of the season AD only averaged 19 carries a game, but in the second half he averaged 25.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

To sit here an try to say (and you know I'm not saying you specifically) that we need to start taking shots deep first so that we can open up the other stuff just flies in the face of how the scheme is actually called.

No one here ever, not now, not all last year is advocating that we need to chuck the ball deep all the time first to open up the underneath stuff. No one.

What we've been saying is we need to be able to have the capability of being able to throw the ball deep at any given time to keep the defenses honest. That may mean only doing it 2-5 times a game, but that makes the threat real.

Sending a guy deep down field who can't catch or the QB can't hit once or twice a game doesn't do that.

+1

Originally Posted by Jarlvik

Percy Harvin returned 'in a good frame of mind,'

+1

And that's a good start, but really, I can't imagine they'd say anything else at this point in time. If they tip their hand, the value/leverage goes down. But hopefully, maybe, seeing what the "team first" mentality got them without him, might just be a bit of humble pie, and thus a slight change of perspective.

I don't see anybody really wanting to give us what he's worth, roughly, IMO 2 firsts and a 2nd or third, perhaps based on performance, so, we ought to just keep him and build around the picks that have worked for us.

Sure, Simpson might do well at the X with more talent added to start on the other side, but, it's a gamble, and with the rest of the talent on this team, I just really don't want to see another year of worst in the league passing offense with no healthy talent at WR.

To sum it up, what most of us are saying, is that we need to upgrade BOTH X and Z, keep Harvin in the slot, and let Simpson, Wright, Jenkins etc battle it out for the last 2 spots, maybe 3 if one's a returner too. Our gameplan has been too short game for too long, it needs at least a little deep threat from somewhere to balance it out, and it could be really dangerous.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Why oh why do we need a "Deep threat" (aka X) reciever. Why isn't it more important to fix our Z (aka possession receiver)

One, (the X) will see 2 - 5 throws a game. The other, (the Z) will see 10 - 15 throws a game. Inside the red zone, a guy isn't going to run deep. On 3rd downs you are typically looking at something between 5-15 yards.

Look I get that you want to see the ball chucked deep all the time, but the reality of the matter is our scheme doesn't dictate that, nor does AD need the top lifted off to get his yards.

In the end we need to resign Percy (Y) and keep working wright as his backup, draft a Z (Allen, Patterson, Hopkins, Dobson, Hunter)d possibly sign someone like a young FA coming off his first contract (Love Ramses Barden) and bring back Simpson as the X and you will have a very effective WR corps.

Its just silly talk to keep chanting we need a deep threat.

Bring back Simpson ?
Jerome Simpson ? The guy who had 274 yards receiving last year ?
26 receptions in 12 games. Zero touchdowns.
The guy who has 1278 yds. , 7 TD's , and 4 fumbles after 5 years in the league ?
Some crazy notion of potential will have some people making excuses involving a pinched nerve in his back.
I see the pinched nerve as something that makes the probability of Simpson ever becoming an above average receiver even less likely.
Just say no to Simpson !

As far as Harvin is concerned, I hope it doesn't happen but, if the Vikings deal him, Wright will be a good replacement. Wright wont be able to do all that Percy does but seems to have what it takes to be a pretty good receiver in this league.

I really hope that the Vikings nip this in the bud early and get Harvin the extension he deserves when free agency opens.

I think it would be GREAT for all parties involved to get a deal done and move on quickly and would show to the rest of the team our commitment to winning. In the end ... if he does not get a deal ... Harvin has made it fairly clear that he is going to hold out. I don't really blame him. He is worth far too much money to risk getting hurt and costing himself millions in the final year of this deal. So, he has to force our hand.

But the Vikes should force his hand as well. Make a more than reasonable offer. Make it public. And if he turns it down, let his ass sit. And then franchise his ass and let him sit again.