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Thread: Penalties

  1. #11
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Penalties

    AWESOME WORK, Jos!!!

    Only ONE problem...it's SHEER...shear is what Packer fans do to their sheep....after they screw them, of course!!!
    LOL

    Just kidding...that is one awesome piece of work!

    YOU DA MAN!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  2. #12
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Penalties

    Wow. That's really good work Josdin, must have been taken a lot of time to do that work.

    That O-line group really need the most to clean up on all of those penalties.

    On the D-line it surprises me that K. Williams has so many penalties. I seem to remember that it were Pat Williams that constantly were jumping offside by getting quick off the ball.


    How has you made your spreadsheet, is it by the penalty, so that you can make crossreferences? Have you marked them down by field position too?

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  3. #13
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Penalties

    "josdin00" wrote:
    The thing that frustrated me most about last season was the shear amount of penalties that were getting called on us. I don't know if it was just a one year problem of everyone figuringout the new systems, or whether it's more serious than that. I went through the play by plays on NFL.com and logged this info. This is just the penalties that cost us yards.

    worst offenders - number of times flagged
    1. K. Williams: 7 penalties for 32 yards.
    1. B. McKinnie: 7 penalties for 60 yards.
    3. M. Johnson: 6 penalties for 50 yards.
    4. T. Taylor: 5 penalties for 45 yards.
    4. K. Udeze: 5 penalties for 26 yards.
    4. F. Smoot: 5 penalties for 48 yards.
    7. R. Whitaker: 4 penalties for 23 yards.
    7. R. Cook: 4 penalties for 21 yards.
    7. M. Rosenthal: 4 penalties for 25 yards.
    7. C. Griffin: 4 penalties for 28 yards.
    7. M. Birk: 4 penalties for 25 yards.
    7. A. Hicks: 4 penalties for 30 yards.
    7. B. Leber: 4 penalties for 30 yards.
    7. J. Whittle: 4 penalties for 19 yards.

    Worst offenders - Number of Yards penalized
    1. B. McKinnie: 7 penalties for 60 yards.
    2. M. Johnson: 6 penalties for 50 yards.
    3. F. Smoot: 5 penalties for 48 yards.
    4. T. Taylor: 5 penalties for 45 yards.
    5. B. Johnson: 3 penalties for 33 yards.
    6. K. Williams: 7 penalties for 32 yards.
    7. B. Leber: 4 penalties for 30 yards.
    7. A. Hicks: 4 penalties for 30 yards.
    7. G. Blue: 3 penalties for 30 yards.
    7. D. Smith: 2 penalties for 30 yards.

    Worst position groups
    1. OL: 36 penalties for 255 yards. (28.2% of all penalty yards)
    2. DL: 22 penalties for 138 yards. (15.3% of all penalty yards)
    3. LB: 14 penalties for 107 yards. (11.8% of all penalty yards)
    4. CB: 13 penalties for 99 yards. (11.0% of all penalty yards)
    5. WR: 11 penalties for 85 yards. (9.4% of all penalty yards)

    Penalties by down
    1. First Down: 40 penalties for 286 yards.
    2. Second Down: 28 penalties for 215 yards.
    3. Third Down: 23 penalties for 164 yards.
    4. Fourth Down: 18 penalties for 134 yards.
    (10 on punts, 5 on punt returns, 2 on the offense when we were going for it, and 1 on a field goal)
    5. Kick Ret.: 7 penalties for 64 yards.
    6. Kickoff: 5 penalties for 35 yards.
    7. 2pt Conv.: 1 penalties for 5 yards.

    Most Frequently called penalties
    1. False Start: 27 penalties for 134 yards.
    2. Holding: 26 penalties for 238 yards.
    3. Offside: 9 penalties for 43 yards.
    4. Pass Interference: 8 penalties for 88 yards.
    5. Roughing the Passer: 5 penalties for 68 yards.
    5. Illeagal Block above the waist: 5 penalties for 45 yards.
    5. Encroachment: 5 penalties for 25 yards.
    8. Face Mask (5 Yard): 3 penalties for 11 yards.
    8. Delay of Game: 3 penalties for 15 yards.
    8. Illeagal Contact: 3 penalties for 15 yards.
    8. Intentional Grounding: 3 penalties for 33 yards.

    Penalties by Quarter
    1. Second Quarter: 42 penalties for 324 yards.
    2. Third Quarter: 31 penalties for 242 yards.
    3. Fourth Quarter: 28 penalties for 182 yards.
    4. First Quarter: 21 penalties for 155 yards.


    I captured the raw information in a spreadsheet, so if anyone wants a copy, PM me your email address.
    Nice summary Josdin.
    Enjoyed reading it.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Penalties

    Awesome Josdin.
    Don't need the spread sheet. Imported the data into one on my puter.
    ;D

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Penalties

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "josdin00" wrote:
    The thing that frustrated me most about last season was the shear amount of penalties that were getting called on us. I don't know if it was just a one year problem of everyone figuringout the new systems, or whether it's more serious than that. I went through the play by plays on NFL.com and logged this info. This is just the penalties that cost us yards.
    Wow, Josdin - great stuff.

    Pokes a couple holes into Del's contention that Birk was getting called for tons of penalties last year.


    Glad to see that the best player on the team, Antoine Winfield, doesn't get flagged too often.

    =Z=
    Actually it doesn't.

    Matt Birk was called for multiple illegal shifts/illegal procedures for lifting the ball off the ground 2 alone in the the Greenbay game during week 16. I have the game film if anyone is interested, in fact I have all the games if anyone is interested. I got my info off the games not NFL.com which lists the penalties as MIN-ILLEGAL SHIFT.

    He lifted the ball cost us 5 yards 2 Times in one game, and 2 Other times during the season. That is 8 penalties for our Pro Bowl center. NFL.Com is not a reliable source for penalties. I take it straight off the game film.

    All he is counting is:

    Week 1- Hold
    Week 1- Ineligible downfield
    Week 2- False Start
    Week 4- Face Mask

    Which is fine, and it is great information and illustrates we have a problem, but it is not all inclusive.

    The illegal shifts for when the ball is lifted off the ground and reset are oddballs not attributed to anyone.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  6. #16
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Penalties

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    It would behoove the Vikings to reduce their offsides and holding penalties by 50%.

    That would reduce the penalty count by 26 or 27, leaving them at 97 - 98 total penalties, which is about avg for the NFL.

    The other penalty types do not seem excessive, so reducing those would be difficult to do.
    The most pressing offensive penalty we have IMO that is the most correctable are the false starts. They are the one penalty that is totally avoidable and one of our most abundant foul.


    On a side note the biggest penalties that moved us out of the redzone were Artis Hicks.

    Some of the most horrible calls that killed us were on Travis Taylor, game ending, score cancelling penalties that should not have been called.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  7. #17
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Penalties

    Josdin good post that must have been a lot of work.


    One of Childress's goals last year was to cut down on the number of penalties and that sure didn't happen, hopefully next year they actually can start making progress in that area.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  8. #18
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    Re: Penalties

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    "vikes09" wrote:
    "josdin00" wrote:


    Penalties by Quarter
    1. Second Quarter: 42 penalties for 324 yards.
    2. Third Quarter: 31 penalties for 242 yards.
    3. Fourth Quarter: 28 penalties for 182 yards.
    4. First Quarter: 21 penalties for 155 yards.

    I wonder why we get sloppier at the end of the 1st half? Do the vikings just get lazy? The penalties doubled going from the 1st quarter to the 2nd! On both the 2nd and 3rd quarters there's a reason there's such a large surge of penalties, while the 1st and 4th are tolerable.

    I just wonder how this compares to other team's penalties...
    There is no statistically significant difference in penalties in the 2nd qtr.
    The mean is 30.5 per qtr.
    Std deviation = 8.7.
    Variance of 2nd qtr from mean relative to Std Devn = (42-30.5) / 8.7 = 1.32, which is not statistically significant ( <2 ).

    Translation, you could easily say the 1st qtr seems very low, as it is (21-30.5)/ 8.7 = .98, which is a little less variant from the mean than the 2nd qtr.

    122 total penalties for the year is bad.
    The best teams commit 80-90, and the worst teams are around 120-140, IIRC.

    No, I don't have a link; I am going from memory of total penalty count stats for a season.


    Editted to add link:

    http://www.nfl.com/stats

    click the 'penalties' stat link....
    Ah Statistical Science.
    A breath of fresh air in a hurricane of speculation!

    Honestly, I love stats analysis, especially when it is used correctly.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Penalties

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Purplexing" wrote:
    "vikes09" wrote:
    "josdin00" wrote:


    Penalties by Quarter
    1. Second Quarter: 42 penalties for 324 yards.
    2. Third Quarter: 31 penalties for 242 yards.
    3. Fourth Quarter: 28 penalties for 182 yards.
    4. First Quarter: 21 penalties for 155 yards.

    I wonder why we get sloppier at the end of the 1st half? Do the vikings just get lazy? The penalties doubled going from the 1st quarter to the 2nd! On both the 2nd and 3rd quarters there's a reason there's such a large surge of penalties, while the 1st and 4th are tolerable.

    I just wonder how this compares to other team's penalties...
    There is no statistically significant difference in penalties in the 2nd qtr.
    The mean is 30.5 per qtr.
    Std deviation = 8.7.
    Variance of 2nd qtr from mean relative to Std Devn = (42-30.5) / 8.7 = 1.32, which is not statistically significant ( <2 ).

    Translation, you could easily say the 1st qtr seems very low, as it is (21-30.5)/ 8.7 = .98, which is a little less variant from the mean than the 2nd qtr.

    122 total penalties for the year is bad.
    The best teams commit 80-90, and the worst teams are around 120-140, IIRC.

    No, I don't have a link; I am going from memory of total penalty count stats for a season.


    Editted to add link:

    http://www.nfl.com/stats

    click the 'penalties' stat link....
    Ah Statistical Science.
    A breath of fresh air in a hurricane of speculation!

    Honestly, I love stats analysis, especially when it is used correctly.
    It's nice but it is relative to the situation. In football where 1 penalty could make or break a game, 1.32 seems significant.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  10. #20
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    Re: Penalties

    Great post Jos.
    Not all penalties are equal obviously. But presnap penalties and blocking in the back penalties seem most avoidable.
    Holds are petty subjective and more often than not, not called.
    If a penalty occurs during the action of the game;so be it.
    But to have a penalty before the ball is hiked is a killer.
    It is interesting to see defense and offense had about the same amount of penalties.
    The perception was, the offense had way more, because they had a greater impact on the outcome of games.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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