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  1. #31
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    The only guy that Pat Williams should have been in the Pro-Bowl over is La'Roi Glover and that Joker was an alternate.

    No way he should get in over Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, even Shaun Rodgers had more sacks and Forced fumbles.

  2. #32
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    Williams claimed that part of the reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl was due to an effort by some offensive linemen to keep him out, a voting conspiracy of sorts. Part of this may have been due to Williams' way of approaching the game. Williams says he hates all centers and guards and wants to destroy all of them. LOL

    I don't know about a conspiracy, but I will say this: The person or persons who pick the Pro Bowl injury replacements could have selected Williams to replace the injured Rod Coleman. Instead they picked La'Roi Glover, who had one of the worst success percentages of any defensive tackle. It makes you wonder about the entire selection process.

    the bolded is hilarious.

  3. #33
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    The only guy that Pat Williams should have been in the Pro-Bowl over is La'Roi Glover and that Joker was an alternate.

    No way he should get in over Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, even Shaun Rodgers had more sacks and Forced fumbles.
    But as you like to say Del sacks and tackles aren't everything for a DT and was Pat playing at a probowl level last year?

    In my opinion yes he was, he started out slow but by mid season was a big part of the reason why our D turned it around and the defense players from last year said it themselves.

    And when he returned yesterday the players where saying he is the leader of our D!
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  4. #34
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    "whackthepack" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    The only guy that Pat Williams should have been in the Pro-Bowl over is La'Roi Glover and that Joker was an alternate.

    No way he should get in over Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, even Shaun Rodgers had more sacks and Forced fumbles.
    But as you like to say Del sacks and tackles aren't everything for a DT and was Pat playing at a probowl level last year?

    In my opinion yes he was, he started out slow but by mid season was a big part of the reason why our D turned it around and the defense players from last year said it themselves.

    And when he returned yesterday the players where saying he is the leader of our D!
    All of the above is true although I don't think he even started out slow last season. If you'll remember no one on our team was foing their job except for Chris Kluwe and Pat Williams. I remember a certain pat williams tearing up the packers at the dome last year and opening up a lot of tackles for our linebackers (particularly EJ Henderson). That was also in a 3-4 defense so he was doing most of the first push work himself.

  5. #35
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    "whackthepack" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    The only guy that Pat Williams should have been in the Pro-Bowl over is La'Roi Glover and that Joker was an alternate.

    No way he should get in over Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, even Shaun Rodgers had more sacks and Forced fumbles.
    But as you like to say Del sacks and tackles aren't everything for a DT and was Pat playing at a probowl level last year?

    In my opinion yes he was, he started out slow but by mid season was a big part of the reason why our D turned it around and the defense players from last year said it themselves.

    And when he returned yesterday the players where saying he is the leader of our D!
    Sadly for the Pro-Bowl yes numbers are everything. Was he playing at a pro-bowl level last year? In my opinion no he wasn't.

    You misunderstood what I said either that or you understood and you chose to twist it either way as far as DT's go and stats:

    Generally DT's with good stats means they are on poor defensive teams. The exception in the Pro-Bowl is Tommie. You can be one of the two or you can be both.

    A) A DT that is required to go above and beyond your position to make up for your teams shortcomings.
    B) A DT who manages gaps and opens the lane for your team to excel.
    C) Both

    Pat Williams is not the best at any of those things. So no he isn't going to make the Pro-bowl on stats because his weren't more impressive then the competition. He isn't going to make the pro-bowl because of gap assignments because A) they don't vote on that. B) Because there are far better DT's out there who go relatively unoticed because they do a thankless job. If you find a team with a LB who walks on water he probably has a ProBowl caliber DT in front of him that gets little attention from media and fans.

    IMO Pat Williams not making the Pro-Bowl is no injustice.

  6. #36
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    The only guy that Pat Williams should have been in the Pro-Bowl over is La'Roi Glover and that Joker was an alternate.

    No way he should get in over Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, even Shaun Rodgers had more sacks and Forced fumbles.
    But as you like to say Del sacks and tackles aren't everything for a DT and was Pat playing at a probowl level last year?

    In my opinion yes he was, he started out slow but by mid season was a big part of the reason why our D turned it around and the defense players from last year said it themselves.

    And when he returned yesterday the players where saying he is the leader of our D!
    All of the above is true although I don't think he even started out slow last season. If you'll remember no one on our team was foing their job except for Chris Kluwe and Pat Williams. I remember a certain pat williams tearing up the packers at the dome last year and opening up a lot of tackles for our linebackers (particularly EJ Henderson). That was also in a 3-4 defense so he was doing most of the first push work himself.
    By design your going to be freeing up tackles for your LB's in a 3-4. In fact I'd be willing to say 85% of the time your LB should be making the stop when in a 3-4.

  7. #37
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    But where is this going to put Kevin Williams, are we gonna use his full potential? If Pat is used to close the gaps all over the D-Line, what can we use Kevin Williams too, other than rushing the Quaterback?


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  8. #38
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    The cover 2 is very defensive line friendly defense.Pat will maintain his gap and execute it well.Like Del said he wont get the glory and he wont put up crazy numbers, but he dosnt need too.He is one piece of this team, he executes his job and his job only.That in turn will open the flood gates for our secondary.I'm more excited to see what our DE's can do.Its very important that our line gets lots of pressure to the opposing QB.

    Theres NOTHING greater then a Florida Gator!
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    "I am not surprised"."-PurplePackerEater

  9. #39
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    Del I don't think I am one of your favorite people on PPO, and that is OK.

    I do like to argue about DT's with you, but I think it kinda bothers you and i do not mean to piss you off!

    I am not a head coach or a D coordinator but I do understand how the game is played, and I do respect your knowledge of the game!

    I do like to argue with you about it tho, and we just have different opinions on what a DT should do! It doesn't mean I don't understand what gap philosophy is, I am just not a huge fan of it.

    When Keith Millard was playing should he have been a gapper and taken away one of the most explosive defense players the Vikings have ever had, to fill a hole!

    The same with John Randall? He should have been a team guy and not gone after plays aggresively and let his teammates be the playmakers?
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  10. #40
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    Re: Pat Williams back to leading D-line

    This was from espn and the football scientest......



    "Defensive linemen have historically been one of the most underrepresented positional groups from a statistical standpoint. Sure, they get credit for sacks, but there are many other contributions they make that they don't get credit for, especially in the running game. One of my goals in researching Scientific Football 2006 was to create a series of metrics to try to help remedy this situation.

    After compiling a season's worth of these metrics, it was clear there are a number of defensive linemen who don't get the credit they deserve. Below is a list of some of these underappreciated linemen, along with some comments about them from Scientific Football 2006.

    • Pat Williams, DT, Vikings: Williams led all defensive tackles in the number of times he defeated an offensive lineman's block. In fact, Williams' 44 defeated blocks were nine more than the second-place finisher in that category. There were games when Williams was simply unblockable, yet he still didn't make the Pro Bowl.



    Scientific Football 2006 can be ordered now from KC Joyner's website.Williams claimed that part of the reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl was due to an effort by some offensive linemen to keep him out, a voting conspiracy of sorts. Part of this may have been due to Williams' way of approaching the game. Williams says he hates all centers and guards and wants to destroy all of them.

    I don't know about a conspiracy, but I will say this: The person or persons who pick the Pro Bowl injury replacements could have selected Williams to replace the injured Rod Coleman. Instead they picked La'Roi Glover, who had one of the worst success percentages of any defensive tackle. It makes you wonder about the entire selection process.

    • Kendrick Clancy, DT, Cardinals: Clancy ranked first among defensive tackles in yards per attempt allowed. He was also second in success percentage and first in the SYPA (success percentage times yards per attempt) metric. With the Giants last season, Clancy also ranked second in the league in total run blocks defeated. He was like Williams in that there were games when he was simply unstoppable (including a game against Dallas, when Clancy single-handedly caused a fumble that the Giants returned for the eventual game-winning touchdown).

    • Grant Wistrom, DE, Seahawks and Michael Strahan, DE, Giants: Wistrom and Strahan certainly aren't undervalued defensive linemen, but they deserve to be included on this list because of their ranking in the metric called pursuit plays. Pursuit plays are plays when a defensive lineman either chases a play down from the back side or runs at least 5 yards downfield to make a tackle. Wistrom led all defensive linemen with 20 pursuit plays and Strahan finished second with 19. These two are seen as exceptional pass rushers, but this metric proves that they do a whole lot more.

    Albert Haynesworth
    Defensive Tackle
    Tennessee Titans

    Profile
    2005 SEASON STATISTICS
    Tot Ast Solo FF Sack Int
    52 36 16 1 3 0

    • Albert Haynesworth, DT, Titans: Haynesworth may have been the most disruptive defensive lineman in the league outside of Williams and Clancy. Haynesworth defeated a ridiculous 43 percent of his point of attack blocks, which was the highest percentage in that category among defensive tackles. His specialty was exploding into the backfield, something clearly shown by the 13 penetration plays he made, which were tied for second in that category. One other incredibly surprising metric for Haynesworth is that he also had 19 pursuit plays, which is something one would not expect from a man of his size.

    • James Hall, DE, Lions: Hall is largely seen as a pass rusher but nearly all of his major run metrics were in the top four among defensive ends. Hall defeated over 35 percent of the run blocks directed at him. His 3.6 yards allowed per run attempt was good enough to rank him 11th in the league at his position.

    • Mike Patterson, DT, Eagles: Patterson could easily make a case that he was the best rookie defensive lineman in the NFL last year. He defeated over 27 percent of his blocks (the 15th best percentage among defensive tackles) and he also allowed only 3.5 yards per attempt. If Patterson did this well last year when the Eagles were very thin on the defensive line due to injuries, he could be positively dominant if that unit stays healthy this year. "

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