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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1098967
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098965
    Quote Originally Posted by "Johnson14" #1098944
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    +1

    Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
    I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

    You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".

    Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.
    turned a 6th round raw rookie into a guy you seem to want to start. Not sure how you can say Pat did or didn't help. You have no basis whatsoever for that comment.
    Just like you have no basis to say that he did help.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098981
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1098967
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098965
    Quote Originally Posted by "Johnson14" #1098944
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    +1

    Would love to see him back here, think he could really help out the young guys.
    I hear ya my friend but not in the "Help" area.

    You know my traditional reply to that type of comment...."Coaches Coach/Players Play".

    Besides, if he was gonna help, one would think that Guion would have been a bit more capable than he has over his short tenure.
    turned a 6th round raw rookie into a guy you seem to want to start. Not sure how you can say Pat did or didn't help. You have no basis whatsoever for that comment.
    Just like you have no basis to say that he did help.
    If you look up a couple posts, you might notice that I didn't.

  3. #13
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099103
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
    He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

    Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

    As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099105
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099103
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
    He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

    Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

    As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.
    Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

    He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099107
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099105
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099103
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
    He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

    Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

    As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.
    Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

    He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
    Best option for what?

    Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

    Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

    Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
    Haloti Ngata
    Paul Soliai
    Barry Cofield
    Brandon Mebane

    Give me a DL like........

    JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

    .......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099126
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099107
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099105
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099103
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
    He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

    Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

    As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.
    Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

    He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
    Best option for what?

    Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

    Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

    Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
    Haloti Ngata
    Paul Soliai
    Barry Cofield
    Brandon Mebane

    Give me a DL like........

    JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

    .......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.
    Lol Ngata over Williams?!

    That's like saying I'd rather have Andre Johnson over Bernard Berrian.

    Ngata is one of the best linemen in the league in his prime.

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099136
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099126
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099107
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099105
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1099103
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1099102
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098899
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098882
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098856
    As a pass rusher, Williams offers practically nothing. In fact, in a study yours truly conducted, Williams generated a quarterback pressure on just 1.16% of the 259 times he rushed the passer; the worst number of all defensive tackles who rushed the passer at least 200 times.

    Accepting the idea that hes not a pass rusher, his defensive stops number must be high given how disruptive he is the run game, right? Not quite. In 2010, with 18 defensive stops, Williams finished a mediocre 36th of all defensive tackles.

    What Williams offers is far more than anything that shows up on a stat sheet.
    A big and powerful defensive tackle, Williams is capable of stacking up linemen, plugging holes, and is surprisingly effective at chasing down runners along the line. The point being that when you try to run at Pat Williams hes still good enough to make that decision look foolish in a variety of ways.

    The list of offensive guards and centers this year that were left dealing with this is as extensive as it is impressive.
    As youd expect, Williams is getting older and isnt quite playing at his Pro Bowl level of 2009. During that season, he was he was our 2nd ranked defensive tackle in run defense. He dropped to 11th in 2010, although, interestingly, he did play more snaps.

    In fact, last year saw Williams increase his amount of regular season snaps by 12.63% on his 2009 total. A significant amount, and one that would help explain why Williams had such a mediocre finish to 2010; only one game tagged with a strongly positive grade in the final six weeks of the season.
    Pat Williams: A 38-Year-Old Solution

    I actually found it interesting that he took more snaps this year than last.

    Again, I love the big guy and would love to see him back, but only if he is willing to cede reps to the younger guys and is willing to take a big pay cut.
    Doubt he'll be willing to do either. Pat has a lot of pride.

    I personally think that he is a great assett on the line - he plugs holes and eats linemen (Which allows ray Edwards to have opportunities :whistle: ), but I don't think he can maintain for a full season any more.

    He's going to be tough to replace.

    Caine
    Good points, and I agree on all of them. Problem is, although he can plug up the run, the pocket sure doesn't get collapsed much anymore.

    Worst thing the type of defense we run world, no pressure up the middle allowing the QB to simply step up and away from the outside rush.
    But that's not Pat failing as much as it is the other 3 not doing their part.

    Pat isn't a pass rush guy. He's a run stuffing, O-Line eating, plug in the middle of the field. Sort of the roll Jerry Ball had back in the day. You can't run AT him, but he's not going to get your QB.

    The other 3 are supposed to take advantage of Pat being doubled and create opportunities...but they all fell short last season.

    Caine
    Agree, but with one minor discussion point. Phat Pat used to collapse the pocket when he was being doubled.

    As the article points out, that part of his game is gone.
    That part is true.

    However, he is still very good at clogging up holes, and has been a HUGE reason for our success defending the run.
    He is, but even that is starting to show some decline.

    Besides, when he comes in, if the team isn't trying to run to eat up clock, all they do is check out of run and pass on us. Again, he makes us predictable.

    As with the TE discussion, anything that makes a team predictable in this day and age is a bad bad bad thing.
    Fair enough, however, I'd say Williams is still our best option at the moment, unless there's a good FA available to pick up.

    He posesses leadership, skills and experience to share with some younger guys. He's worked with KW for a long time, and the two work pretty well together. If the price is right, we'd be foolish to not bring him back. I'm by no means saying he's an elite player, or even a great player, but he's solid.
    Best option for what?

    Were is his leadership for off field activities? Sure, he's not under contract but if he was serious about coming back he'd step in. Sure he's worked well with Kevin but at this point I almost am willing to cut bait with K-dubb as well.

    Won't play in a 3-4. Tackles are way down. Makes some nice plays, but there are alot better options out there than him right now. Then bring in the "Leadership" aspect. Were is he when it comes to organizing some off the field workouts?

    Players I'd put in Phat Pats spot (some even in Kevins)
    Haloti Ngata
    Paul Soliai
    Barry Cofield
    Brandon Mebane

    Give me a DL like........

    JA - Guion - Ngata/Soliai/Cofield - Griff or Ballard

    .......and I bet almost everyone would forget real quick about Phat Pat and possibly even K-dubb.
    Lol Ngata over Williams?!

    That's like saying I'd rather have Andre Johnson over Bernard Berrian.

    Ngata is one of the best linemen in the league in his prime.
    I think you meant......and still in his prime. All of those cats are still in their prime.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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